School declined holidays and branded the kids truants

mogadon

Murphy_The_Cat wrote: »

Once again, I'll tell it as it is, I'll take my children out of school as and when it suits my circumstances, and in my case at least, its nowt to do with money. For me, its with the schools blessing, which is handy. If the school wasn't prepared to 'permit' me to care for my family/children in the (IMO) best possible way, well c'est la vie, I'll have to live with that.
Me bad.
Me very bad.

There is a difference, because if the head authorises, it's not illegal.

But having said that, I'd like to see schools take a much harder line with it. £100 fines are just a farce and a money making exercise. If parents don't value their child's school place enough to actually use it, then they don't deserve it. Let them go to a school where no-one gives a damn if the kids turn up or not, and free up places in the decent schools for the kids that actually attend.

Murphy_The_Cat wrote: »

I suppose that you would consider me a rotten, boo hiss parent for having my son working with me for part of his holidays ? I don't, as its something that I/we enjoy enormously and that we've both seen huge benefits from. It wouldn't suit some people, but it suits ud VERY well indeed.;).

Not at all, and I am not sure why you would think that. I think it's a great thing. A chance to work, and see what real life is like, and spending time with family too. Unless you are sending him up chimneys or down mines, that's exactly the sort of life experience I'd want for any child. It's a shame most don't get the opportunity.

If you were pulling him out of school to work for you, then yes I would think you were a rotten parent.

Actually, that did genuinely happen to a friend of mine when I was at school. Her mother kept her home to help out with her business. It started off as a day here or there, and ended up being weeks at a time. She ended up in a children's home after she was taken into care, and I lost touch with her then.

Murphy_The_Cat wrote: »

so, for a goodly amount of small businessmen, after they've made sure that their employees are getting their holiday time in, the only time that is available to them is during school term time -- so, what is more important ? Having some valuable holiday time with your family, or maintaining a line of ticks in a school register ?

For me, its the former, but the opinion of others may differ

I'd say the obvious thing would be not to always put your employees families before your own. You sound like a decent boss, I am sure your employees appreciate that. Every job I've ever had has had competition for leave during school holidays. As long as the available time was divided fairly, it was never an issue, even if it meant not everyone got the holiday they wanted every year. The times it became a big deal was when it wasn't done fairly and certain people were seen to be getting more than their fair share. But I don't think anyone would begrudge the boss be entitled to ask for time off then as well.

Murphy_The_Cat wrote: »

I would suggest that for the vast majority of a childs time at school, a week here of there in a 3 term academic year won't make a blind bit of difference - as long as the child/youth isn't as thick as a workhouse butty.

I disagree. It puts kids back further than you think, and it holds the rest of the class back because the teacher has to play catch-up to get the ones who missed it back up to speed. If just 10 kids are taken out at different times for 2 weeks each, that class will be disrupted for half the school year. And that's before you get into the issues around the sort of example that's being set.

PolishBigSpender

Wow.

In Poland, if we want to take our children out of school, all we do is write a letter informing the school that the child will be absent for two weeks/four weeks/whatever. The school simply isn't interested unless attendance drops below 50% - at which point, the child can fail the school year and must repeat.

All this talk of "fines" is terrifying stuff - what does it achieve to take money AWAY from families? I really don't understand - especially in "working poor" families! I'm frankly shocked that someone thinks that it's a good idea to fine parents for something that is really quite trivial.

Education is not, and never will be about statistics.

ailuro2

In the U.S. if the kids are off during term time they have to do a project on the place they are away to, usually takes about an hour a day or more.

Seems like a sensible solution to me....

If money is an issue then I'd seriously recommend saving up a bit longer before you head out to Florida - not everyone realises you're looking at around £900 for Disney tickets for four of you if you get the two week pass, another couple of hundred or more for Universal tickets, and thats before you even think about Seaworld, Busch Gardens, Discovery Cove or a trip to Kennedy Space Centre.:eek:

stoneman

Anyway, back to the problem in hand. If the OP wants to get out of the holiday make sure you have holiday insurance in place, then 3 days before you are due to go, when one of the kids is standing at the top of the steps..........

peachyprice

JVRMac wrote: »

I was informed by the school, that from September the laws relating to the 10 days off will be changed and that all holidays would be unauthorised, which would be reported to the welfare officer and classed as truancy, we would then be taken to court and would probably have to pay the fine of £100 per child. (It was previously £50 per child).

Just checked the LEA website and it doesn't refer to any changes to the exisitng policy, so will have another word with the school.

The above rules are already in place. I don't think laws are being changed, I think your school are exercising their rights to implement existing guidelines which have been in place for a number of years, probably due to too many parents taking holidays and the effect it will have on their ofsted report.

poet123

peachyprice wrote: »

The above rules are already in place. I don't think laws are being changed, I think your school are exercising their rights to implement existing guidelines which have been in place for a number of years, probably due to too many parents taking holidays and the effect it will have on their ofsted report.

That may be true, but it is not a national policy (as the OP stated) in my area we don't have fines, and the head still has the discretion to authorise the 10 days term time absence.

photome

dmg24 wrote: »

Please elaborate on what is educational about a week in Florida? :rotfl:

I know you post on here all the time but you are not always right!

A week in any other other culture has to be educational whatever one does.

I am sure if you put your mind to it you will see it


As for the OP I dont see a problem taking the kids out of school for a week, different story about not checking hubbys holidays though

peachyprice

poet123 wrote: »

That may be true, but it is not a national policy (as the OP stated) in my area we don't have fines, and the head still has the discretion to authorise the 10 days term time absence.

No, I agree it isn't, I think her school are telling porkie pies. I would hazard a guess that they decided implement the rules because they are due an ofsted visit in the near future

My DD's school got really hot on it last year, then sent out a letter in July saying they were introducing a zero tolerance policy from September, Ofsted visited in December.

Call me cynical

easy

mogadon wrote: »

I disagree. It puts kids back further than you think, and it holds the rest of the class back because the teacher has to play catch-up to get the ones who missed it back up to speed. If just 10 kids are taken out at different times for 2 weeks each, that class will be disrupted for half the school year. And that's before you get into the issues around the sort of example that's being set.

Hmm.

Radio 4s program PM did a piece about this a while ago, and a blog page . In the comments on that blog, I found this

As an infant headteacher* I'd say this is a classic case of the law of unintended consequences. As lemonade2 says, the introduction of a 95% target for attendance is being applied indiscriminately. The children we need to get into school are those who currently only manage two or three days a week - they are the ones whose education is suffering. But it's easier to hit the target by banning term-time holidays for the conscientious good attenders, who, as other posters have said, will get as much out of a holiday with their family as they will out of two weeks in school.

The idea that children are 'missing' bits of their education is a bit of a myth. Education is an on-going process of learning and consolidation - you don't suffer for the rest of your life if you were off school when the rest of your class did the Great Fire of London or decimal fractions. Good teachers constantly identify and remedy such gaps.

No one makes a song and dance about a child being off for a fortnight with chicken pox, which is a lot less educational than a family holiday. Obviously there are times (e.g. exam season in secondary schools) when it would not be sensible to take a child out of school - but a little common sense would suggest that a fortnight negotiated with a school shouldn't be a problem.



*now retired, mercifully

Having seen my son go through 6 years of schooling, in a standard primary school (which has been judged 'good' by ofsted), I have consistently been pretty disappointed by the amount of 'work' they actually get through.

I can honestly say that taking a fortnight's holiday in term time will NOT leave such a huge gap in his learning that it will impact on his life, partly because so much of the curriculum is repeated, year on year.

We shall see if secondary school is any more demanding of his abilities ...

withabix

There is no forthcoming change is legislation coming with regard to holidays in term time. Nor was there under the previous government. I suspect it is more likely that the OP's school is underperforming.

The ONLY reason why schools refuse is because it affects THE SCHOOL'S performance in the league tables.

Little or nothing to to with your childrens' education.

Anyone who disagrees with this is extremely naive.

My kids attend one of the top comprehensive schools in the north of England, which has high attendance, good league table positions and OFSTED reports.

Unless your kids already have poor attendance or they are doing badly at school, there isn't usually a problem with a term-time holiday, because it is the effect on the school's performance that they are really worried about.

We took my kids to British Columbia for two weeks when one was at secondary and the other at primary - one week half term, one week term-time. Both headteachers were impressed by the holiday and didn't hesitate to approve the trip.

My kids did plenty of educational stuff whilst we were there - whale watching, Vancouver Aquarium Marine Science Centre, BC Museums, Bodyworlds (which is something I can thoroughly recommend if it comes to the UK again), ScienceWorld, First Nations, Victoria, Bug Zoo and much more. My youngest even spent a day at her cousin's primary school.

I wouldn't take my kids out of school if they were doing badly or had poor attendance.