burglar alarms

RedOnRed

YorkshireBoy wrote:

Firstly, you will not get any "professionally installed wired alarm system" from a NACOSS firm for less than £600-700 no matter how small your house.

Secondly, in order to qualify for ongoing insurance discounts you will have to have the system serviced annually by a NACOSS accredited firm at a cost of £30-50 (depending where you are). Forget once - and your contents insurance is void!!!!

With my £200 contents policy, I would get a 2.5% discount - a whole fiver!

HTH
YB
(Electrical Engineer)

Firstly, have you done a nationwide pricing survey to backup your figures?

Secondly, your contents insurance will not necessarily be "void". Just as burglar alarm prices vary around the country, so do insurance company terms and conditions.

Lastly, you only get a "2.5%" insurance discount do you? Well mine is 10%. I'd suggest you maybe shop around.

I'm afraid your own personal experiences don't reflect the population at larges.

YorkshireBoy

RedOnRed wrote:

Firstly, have you done a nationwide pricing survey to backup your figures?.

No, I based my response on the fact that I've been in electrical engineering for 28 years, and have installed over 150 alarm systems for friends, family, and work colleagues. I have therefore seen well over 100 quotes from "professional" NACOSS registered alarm installers, fitting systems that comply with BS4737, and accredited for their ISO 9000 quality management systems. I know the cost of membership for the various industry bodies (such as NACOSS, NICEIC, ECA, etc), and I also know the costs associated with running a business. Like I said, you won't get one for less than that price.

RedOnRed wrote:

Secondly, your contents insurance will not necessarily be "void". Just as burglar alarm prices vary around the country, so do insurance company terms and conditions.

When I last looked, L&G, Eagle Star, Direct Line, More Than, etc, etc, all had these conditions attached. Otherwise, it would be a little like telling Churchill car insurance that you've got a Thatchem Cat 1 alarm system and a Garage when what you've really got is a Krook-Lok and a street lamp!

RedOnRed wrote:

Lastly, you only get a "2.5%" insurance discount do you? Well mine is 10%. I'd suggest you maybe shop around.

I'm afraid your own personal experiences don't reflect the population at larges.

No, I said I "WOULD" get 2.5% (if I had paid £30-50/annum for the alarm system to be serviced once/annum to NACOSS standards).

I'm comfortable that I have the cheapest Buildings/Contents policy that I could find at the annual renewal last October (MSE remember?)

I actually get a 17.5% discount made up as follows:
2.5% for 5 lever mortice front and rear
2.5% for approved window locks
2.5% for approved top/bottom patio door locks
10% NCD for previous year

Discounts though, are a funny thing, especially if the initial premium is somewhat inflated in the first place. At the end of the day its the price you pay for the cover you require.

The point I was making was it simply wasn't worth the money for an annual service (consisting of "dusting the panel" and recommending that they change the battery every other year at £30+ for a £7 unit). Much better, I feel, to test the system as I do every Saturday afternoon from a different detector each time (tests the whole system over a 9 week period)

I hope I have answered your points accurately, and trust that I have suitably qualified my initial, albeit hurried, response to your suggestion to the original poster's question.

YB

Edit: found this while researching the subject...

RedOnRed wrote:

Ours was NACOSS installed last spring. We had three quotes all around £1100 for a four bedroom.......I'm not sure if bedrooms really come into it.

Told ya! You're absolutely right - unless you've a PIR in every room, the price will not reduce substantially.

RedOnRed wrote:

Is your flat all on the same level? Is there access from the outside, apart from abseiling down that is. It could be that a flat would be a lot easier then a house and would need less parts.

Still needs a control panel, battery, bell-box, SAB, strobe, internal siren, exit/entry door contacts, cable. Only thing it wouldn't need is 2 or 3 PIR's at £15 a piece.

RedOnRed

YorkshireBoy wrote:

Told ya! You're absolutely right - unless you've a PIR in every room, the price will not reduce substantially.

Still needs a control panel, battery, bell-box, SAB, strobe, internal siren, exit/entry door contacts, cable. Only thing it wouldn't need is 2 or 3 PIR's at £15 a piece.

The price for fitting my burglar alarm system does reflect having a PIR in almost every room, amongst a lot of other equipment fitted. In fact, you'd need to do an Oceans 11/12 job to get into my gaf undetected.

Personally, I think no matter what the cost, every penny is well spent when it comes to getting a decent wired burglar alarm system. On the basis that if you do get burgled, it's impossible to quantify the emotional scarring that can be caused. It's bad enough for adults, but if you have children then it could upset them at least for the rest of their childhood.

welshblob

securityman wrote:

Have a read up on the power max, great alarm. Do it all and more. 120 db int sounder. speech dailer.

http://www.personalalarms.co.uk/powermax.html

These are the best for price i have found.
http://www.ttsfire.co.uk/

Now thats the type of system I've been looking for, lots of expandability, X10 and even the key fob is small and replacable. Have to say the components are quite pricey but I shouldn't need that many and it allows you to build exactly what you want. I need to read up on what exactly this can do as I was hoping to use my broadband connection to help with some web cam feeds and sms messages.
So does anybody have any bad experiences of using wireless? I've heard of, and have had some problems using some wireless devices together e.g. dec phones, wireless router, wireless video sender. The last thing I want is a rogue house alarm to annoy the neighbours .... I already have a car alarm that does that!
Cheers
Rob

loopy_lass

oh dear boys, i dindt expect you guys to get into a ruck about this lol... anyways, alarm arrived and was put up within 3 hrs, no problems. the sound from the keypad/control thingy is earpeircing. and if anyone wants to hang around with that ringing in their ears theres something wrong with them

so, service was top notch, alarm looks fine, received within 24hrs p&p free... so wireless alarms gets my vote... im well happy

now u guys make friends... rite this minute....


loops

securityman

ACID wrote:

http://www.shop.bt.com/invt/cbv100

is it along these lines??

Yes but this is the only diff

from the link

"This is subject to a subscription to a monitoring service incurring a separate monthly fee".

With the powermax it's free, no cost, only the cost of the call from your landline.

The Bt one has got diffrent software.

But for that price if you dont want to use the speech dailer it is great. Saying that you could buy a speech dailer for about £60 and add it to this system. Dont know what other S/W diff there is.

securityman

loopy_lass wrote:

oh dear boys, i dindt expect you guys to get into a ruck about this lol... anyways, alarm arrived and was put up within 3 hrs, no problems. the sound from the keypad/control thingy is earpeircing. and if anyone wants to hang around with that ringing in their ears theres something wrong with them

so, service was top notch, alarm looks fine, received within 24hrs p&p free... so wireless alarms gets my vote... im well happy

now u guys make friends... rite this minute....


loops

These alarms are nothing but trouble, see all the brains are in the SAB. Now in 12 months time when some damp gets in there you will have all sorts of trouble.

Up to the bell at 3am is not nice, i have done 24 hr call out for 10 years so i know what it's like. But i will get £70 + to down power an alarm at 3 am.

We rip them out all time time when they go wrong and you think i" cannot take know more of this alarm".

Then most people dont care how much a good alarm cost then. it does help that we give 1 years 24 call out inc in the price.

But the best way to have a good alarm is buy the pro stuff and fit it your self.
Most of the £ is in the fitting.


This would of been much much better. http://www.shop.bt.com/invt/cbv100#

securityman

welshblob wrote:

Now thats the type of system I've been looking for, lots of expandability, X10 and even the key fob is small and replacable. Have to say the components are quite pricey but I shouldn't need that many and it allows you to build exactly what you want. I need to read up on what exactly this can do as I was hoping to use my broadband connection to help with some web cam feeds and sms messages.
So does anybody have any bad experiences of using wireless? I've heard of, and have had some problems using some wireless devices together e.g. dec phones, wireless router, wireless video sender. The last thing I want is a rogue house alarm to annoy the neighbours .... I already have a car alarm that does that!
Cheers
Rob

I have one, they are the bezz nezz. I press one button on the remote to unlock my front door, another to open my garage. I can open the front door or garage from any phone around the world.

Can set,unset, switch on any plug ( lamp,fans) from any phone.
Can log on through the net and do any thing.

Once you have established communications with Powermax from a remote telephone, you may initiate a two way conversation with a person left within the premises.

Arming in Latchkey mode will trigger a message to be sent to a telephone number when a designated latchkey user disarms the system. For example, if a parent wants to be sure that their child has returned safely from school.

N9eav

Just to add an angle to this as a Bobby on the beat. Burglars don't always care about alarms. The police can take at least 15 minutes to get there once they have been notified of an activation by the alarm company. Neighbours don't care either they just hate you for disturbing them with that racket going off.

The best protection you can get is'

1. Decent home and contents insurance. (new for old)
2. Photograph your property with a digi camera and store the images on a disk in a safe place. Note serial numbers.
3. Any sentimental jewelery have photo'd and valued and DO NOT leave it in a convenient box on the dressing table. Try buying a safe and securing it to the floor. It's amazing how many people have £5000 of Granny's jewelery left to them and leave it in a wooden box for all to see (and take). would you keep £5000 in cash on your bedside table?
4. Lock your doors and windows when you are not in. Lock the front door if you are in the back garden.

I have been to break in's with and without alarms. with and without dogs. with and without multipoint locking systems (they are useless) The most common type is the walk in. Or smash the door glass and use the key that's left in the lock.

Hope this helps. Loads more tips if you want

RedOnRed

N9eav wrote:

Just to add an angle to this as a Bobby on the beat. Burglars don't always care about alarms. The police can take at least 15 minutes to get there once they have been notified of an activation by the alarm company. Neighbours don't care either they just hate you for disturbing them with that racket going off.

So do you actually recommend or not having a burglar alarm? Isn't it usually said that if you have identical houses next to each other then typically your average burglar will just choose the house without a burglar alarm?

To simplify things, isn't the best protection you can have just simply to have as many layers of security as possible, in order to prolong the difficulty of getting in etc?