725,000 public sector jobs face axe, economist warns

simongregson

Procrastinator333 wrote: »

In this example, you wouldn't just have a rise or bonus based on the number of A grades, but on the increase / decrease over prior year.

So if in a poorly performing school the % of A* to C increased from 28 to 31%, that may be considered a good result, but in a top school, dropping from 98 to 95% would be a bad result.

Unfortunatly the next year group through might not be as able, so it doesn't really work as a method. Schools generally are set targets based on the previous achievment of that year group, in some cases it might be below the previous year group if they are particularly weak academically.

Also, there is plenty of opportunity for figure massaging with some vocational courses equivalent to several GCSE A-C grades.

There is actually plenty of opportunity in the existing pay system for teachers to be rewarded for good work - headteachers can award extra pay points, and of course there is a scheme for excellent teachers and pay increments are always subject to satisfactory performance, but making allowances for factors completely outside the teacher's control.

Andy_L

tesuhoha wrote: »

This is a perfectly good suggestion unless you are 55 and on the minimum wage which a lot of public sector workers are.

Really? A lot of public sector workers are on nmw? Do you have a cite to back that up?

ash28

StevieJ wrote: »

I know it is only a film but I thought the basis of the Rambo films were that they were not respected when they came home, then maybe it all changed when the public saw that film

A lot of Vietnam Vets were vilified when they got home and treated appallingly badly by the government and the public. The Vietnam war was the first "uncensored" war and some of the reports and images that came out of there were pretty horrific. Things aren't the same now, I suppose it was a lesson learned.

As someone said television brought the brutality of war into the living room.

A lot of people treated the vets as if they were personally responsible for both the war and government policy.

JasonLVC

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

I am fine with a cull of wasteful public sector jobs - but not now. Canada did its cull with the economy in growth - surplus employees were able to transfer from non-productive public sector jobs into productive public sector jobs.

But what will happen with cuts here now? No private sector jobs to go into so what we'll do is take people from the employment list and pay them benefits. Yes, we save their salary. We then lose their economic spending of their spare cash, we pay them dole money, housing and council tax benefits, tax credits. Their decrease in spending puts people in the private sector out of work. We then pay them benefits and so on. The notion that we can save £6bn by putting people on the dole is laughable - it'll cost us most of that in lost tax revenues and benefit. And crash the economy putting yet more people out of work. Or we could do as the treasury mandarins reportedly advised Laws - do nothing. We cut £20bn off the deficit by growing the economy. They forecast a further £60bn off the deficit by reflating growth this financial year. Osborne will bin the £60bn of "cuts" by pushing through £6bn of ideological cuts.

We have a deficit because tax revenues fell off during the recession. We reflate the economy, we get the tax revenue back. Yes, we need to cut the structural deficit and tax revenues won't recover all the way. But the bulk of the deficit will disappear in the same way it appeared - economic activity. Threaten the recovery and we really are screwed.

Anybody would think the 750,000 jobs are all going to be axed on 01 July 2010.

They're not are they?

I thought the plan was to freeze public sector pay now to stop payroll budgets increasing this year and then a phased loss of those jobs over the next 4-5 years.

According to Darling just before the election, the UK was already coming out of recession and reporting 3% growth for the year - so if that level is sustained there will be plenty of jobs each year over the 4-5 years.

So the UK has growth already, match the job losses to that predicted growth and not exactly the carnage being predicted by some - but accepting that jobs will be lost over time and not all of those people will get jobs straight away or at all.

Old_Slaphead

tesuhoha wrote: »

This is a perfectly good suggestion unless you are 55 and on the minimum wage which a lot of public sector workers are. Waiting for the next payslip by the end of the week. So what do you do at that age unable to qualify for a pension? Go onto benefits of course. Any more good suggestions.

Rubbish - show me evidence of 1 single public sector worker on national minimum wage.
(nb - there are over 1 million private sector workers on NMW)

oops sorry Andy - just seen #153 which makes same point

Norfolk_Jim

Andy_L wrote: »

AlThough that's a ~2 year old number for someone in basic training rather than a fully trained, deployable marine

Are they fed and housed or do they have to pay for those things themselves? Do they pay council tax? I should know the answer to this having grown up in a military family, but as a kid I took no notice of that.

Norfolk_Jim

No one seems to have thought about the trickle down effect of shedding 1M public sector jobs. Suddenly you will have all these families recieving benefits and having much less to spend in private sector shops on private sector produced ( though largely in China) products. If the tax take on most of us is 50% or more, spending less and living on benefits would reduce the taxes they are paying.
Yesterday I was thinking just how much trickledown there is with every purchase I make. I drive to Sainsburys before going home (Tax on fuel - all private sector purchases) and buy a meat pie for the evening meal (profit for Private sector sainsbury & pie maker). The producer of the pie (private sector) has to buy a box for the pie, pastry ingredients, meat (Maybe from British but likely Brazilian and other nationality farmers - private sector), and electricity for their factory (private sector) and pay business rates and corporation tax. They have to haul the pie (Haulage, drivers, fuel, road tax) and pay their private sector staff
In fact draw a flow chart for all the stuff I buy and it's quite amazing just how the money flows around the country / world and whos hands it passes through and how much additional commerce it passes through - to think nothing of banking, insurance, services.
Public sector - Private sector - its a complicated web and we are all connected.
So sack all these public sector workers and the private sector will suffer too. I certainly dont advocate trying to spend our way out of trouble but I just wanted to make the point that having a public sector isn't necessarily bad for the private sector and shedding people will cause pain for everyone, not just the public sector.
So while you might not like the public sector workers, is the hatred really justified?

Norfolk_Jim

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Rubbish - show me evidence of 1 single public sector worker on national minimum wage.
(nb - there are over 1 million private sector workers on NMW)

oops sorry Andy - just seen #153 which makes same point

The support staff and grounds staff where I work are on national minimum wage. Theres a lot of people doing the donkey work and they dont pay them any more than they have to. Neither do they get the pensions that people here hate so much.

ILW

Norfolk_Jim wrote: »

The support staff and grounds staff where I work are on national minimum wage. Theres a lot of people doing the donkey work and they dont pay them any more than they have to. Neither do they get the pensions that people here hate so much.

Whereas it is up to the private sector to pay whatever they like, I would suggest that it is a DUTY within the public sector to pay the absolute minimum required to get the job done properly.
It is others peoples money they are using.

marklv

mbga9pgf wrote: »

Remember that statement the next time you see some poor 18 year old kids coffin being paraded down Wootton Bassett high street you ungrateful little c*nt.

So what is your point? Are we here to worship soldiers? Soldiers do a job - a job like any other - and they accept the risks when they first take up that job. They know the risks. This country does not have a military culture, it has a civilian one, and I don't believe that servicepeople should be treated any differently from other public servants. You can curse and swear as much as you like it, but this is the way it is.