DMP Mutual Support Thread - Part 7

Twit_Head

scouselad1974 wrote: »

Hi

That is brilliant news, I've had a bit of a bad day and your news has really cheered me up. Well done :j:beer:

Now, now Scouse - there are lots of shoulders here if you need to have a good cry on them.
Some days you win, some you lose but just hope things have improved for you.

'Twitty'

scouselad1974

Cheers Twitty,

I'm feeling a bit better today, I was just annoyed that The FOS adjudicator is under the impression that a creditor has every right to contact you by telephone if you have an account with them, even after asking for all contact to be in writing only or via your third party representative CCCS.

This decision goes against everything I have read here, I would be grateful if anybody could give me some legal jargon to refer the adjudicator to regarding this.

mikon

Scouselad1974

Here is something that i posted on the other DMP thread. It may help.

everyone else who is being or feels that their creditors or harassing them or behaving in a threatening manner here is some legislation that can quoted to the creditors.

Quote this an I am sure they will take note.

SECTION 40 OF THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE ACT

"S40 Punishment for unlawful harassment of debtors.
(1) A person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under a contract he -
(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which, in respect of their frequency, or the manner or occasion of making any such demand, or of any threat or publicity by which any demand is accompanied, are calculated to subject him or members of his family or house hold to alarm, distress or humiliation;
(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;
(c) falsely represents himself to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment; or
(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character, or purporting to have some official character which he know it has not.
Both the Office of Fair Trading and trade associations (run by the credit industry) have produced guidance on what activities may be considered harassment and should therefore be avoided by creditors.

Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance

"Many activities could count as harassment. It is important to note that "anything done by a person which is reasonable" when trying to recover a debt, is not considered to be harassment."
"Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive."
Contacting you too frequently
Pressurising you to sell property or take out more debt
Using more than one collection company at the same time or not telling you when your debt has been passed to another company
Pressurising you to pay in full or in large instalments you cannot afford
Making threatening gestures or statements
Ignoring disputes about whether you owe the money
Trying to embarrass you in public or threatening to tell a third party about your debts such as a neighbour or your family.
"Those contacting debtors must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their authority and/or the correct legal position."
This includes:
Claiming to work for the court or be a bailiff
Implying action can be taken that is not legally possible such as implying they could take your property
Using a business name or logo that implies they are a government body
Implying that court action has been taken against you when it hasn’t
Implying not paying your debt is a criminal offence
Threatening to take court action in England if you live in Scotland or the other way round.
"It is unfair to communicate, in whatever form, with consumers in an unclear, inaccurate or misleading manner."
This includes:
Letters that look like court claims
Not making it clear who the company is or what their role is
Unhelpful legal language
Not giving balance statements about the debt when asked
Contacting you at unreasonable times even when asked not to
Asking you to contact them on premium rate phone numbers.

"Those visiting debtors must not act in an unclear or threatening manner."

This includes:

Collectors should explain the reason for any visit and give you notice of the time and date they will call
They shouldn’t visit if they know you are ill or vulnerable and if they find you are unwell or distressed they should leave
They should not come in if you do not want them to and should leave when you ask them to
They shouldn’t visit you at work or somewhere like a hospital.
"Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair."
Examples include:
Sending letters addressed to "the occupier" or discussing the debt with someone without knowing if they are you
Refusing to deal with an adviser acting on your behalf
Not accepting reasonable offers or passing on payments you make
Refusing to freeze action if you dispute the debt.
"Charges Should Not Be Levied Unfairly"
Examples include:
Claiming collection costs when the original credit agreement didn’t allow this to happen and making you think you are legally liable for the costs
Not putting the specific amounts that can be added for collection costs in the original credit agreement
Adding Unreasonable Charges.

How To Deal With Harassment By Your Creditors

The first step is to write to a creditor and outline your concerns about the company’s behaviour. Inform them that you are familiar with the terms of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act and ask that the creditor takes steps to avoid similar occurrences in the future. Tell your creditors how you would prefer to be contacted and ask that they confirm their agreement to this. A letter at this stage may avoid the need to take further action against the company.
Tell them you are aware of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance and that you will consider making a complaint about their behaviour under the guidance.
It is usually difficult to persuade the police to prosecute in cases of harassment unless a more serious offence such as violence, fraud or blackmail is also involved. Normally complaints should be made to the trading standards/consumer protection department at your local council. They should investigate whether an offence has been committed and whether prosecution is appropriate. The penalty is a fine of up to £5,000 in the Magistrates Court. Also a conviction is likely to provide evidence that the creditor is no longer a ‘fit and proper person’ to hold a consumer credit licence.
If Trading Standards will not act it may be worth contacting the Office of Fair Trading directly. The address is at the end of the factsheet. The OFT does not usually take up individual complaints but their Debt Collection Enforcement Team collects information that can be used to take action against creditors who can lose their consumer credit licence.
The creditor may be a member of a trade association with a code of practice. You could find out if your creditor is a member of a trade association and write to them with your complaint. A code of practice is not legally enforceable but the association may take some action against their members.
Other Options
Another alternative is for you to pursue your own prosecution in the Magistrates Court. This could involve considerable cost so you need to obtain proper legal advice first.
BT have a new service called "Choose to Refuse" which might help if you are getting a lot of calls from an unpleasant creditor. You have to key in a pin number after a call. The caller will then get an automated message if you don’t wish to take their call when they ring. The cost of the service is £8.00 per quarter.
If you receive a telephone service from another provider, contact them and ask if they have a similar service.
You could refer to the Malicious Communications Act 1988. This deals with the sending of letters or articles for the purpose of causing "distress or anxiety". A person found guilty can be fined in the Magistrates Court. To prosecute successfully, the letter or article sent would have to convey
a message which is indecent or grossly offensive,
A threat; or
Information which is false and known or believed to be false by the sender.
The Criminal Justice Act & Public Order Act 1994 Section 4a makes it a criminal offence to cause "Harassment, alarm or distress" with intent by using "threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour". This can only be an offence if it happens in a public place not in your own home. The police would need to be contacted and prosecute for this offence.
The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 makes it a criminal offence to harass people and put "people in fear of violence". The harassment must happen on at least 2 separate occasions. The police would have to agree to prosecute for this offence.


Here is the link to the Debt Collection Guidance Booklet that Creditors must adhere to.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...dit/oft664.pdf


You can tell I have a life on a Saturday Night. But I just want to assist everyone out there.

Sorry for the long post but I thought it would be useful to everyone on this forum.

scouselad1974

Brilliant post mate.

The problem is I have already sent the creditor all of the above including all of the template letters here and they refused full stop to remove my number from their systems. The calls have ceased now as I have managed to set up a payment plan with them (thanks to The FOS)

But the point is that the creditor still wont remove my contact numbers from their system or deal with CCCS directly.

The Information Commisioner will not back my case and The FOS says that the creditor has every right to telephone me if I owe them money and no payment arrangement is in place (i have since set a payment plan up)

So I really don't know what to do next

Thanks for your post, I will use parts of it in my reply to The FOS.

BTW I'm sad to being here on a Sat night

mikon

Scouselad1974

Things may improve now your plan is up and running.

If you have sign the authorisation paperwork then if creditors ring I would just give them your DMP ref no and tell them to deal with CCCS.

The other option is to stop the calls is by purchasing TrueCall a telephone blocking system.

Good Luck and remember we are here never feel alone.

Regards

scouselad1974

Cheers mate

My plan has been running for over a year now and all of my creditors have been quite helpfull apart from this one.
I have a True Call unit and it's brilliant, TBH it's the principle of it now that is annoying me, the fact that somebody can store your telephone number even though you have asked for it to be removed and call you every single day for 6 months non stop upto 3 times per day.

ukjs1976

Hi - I apologise in advance if I shouldn't post this here, however
I'm about to start a DMP with the CCCS. I have posted this plan
of action on a thread about my nightmare debts, but thought I
would put it here to as it may be useful to others and
I'd very much appreciate any advice:

I had a phone call today from egg credit card telling me I was
over the limit due to interest charges and they want £100 urgently
on top of the £278 they will get by direct debit in a few days time.

They basically bullied me into saying I would oay it online by 4pm on
Sunday 25 July (but I can't afford an extra £100 payment to them) so right
now I dunno what to do about that.

The phone call today is in fact the first contact I have had about my debts,
but I realised it was a matter of a short time a couple of weeks ago,
hence I contacted the CCCS. The fact that I got the phone call
has booted me into action.

I have gone through the bits sent to me by the CCCS.

Here's the plan:

1. On Monday change my bank account details with my
employer to an alternative current account I have.
I have checked and the alternative current account
has 3 pounds in it and is still active (no links what so ever to institutions
I have debts with) no overdraft facility and won't have one.
This will ensure my salary goes into the new account next pay day.
The cut off date to change bank accounts is the 4th of the month
so still time for next pay day.

2. Change standing orders/direct debits for priority bills to new
current account. Close standing orders/DDs on old current account.

3. Fill in DD form so a single debt repayment to pay off debts goes via CCCS.
Post this with completed 'authorisation and agreement form' to CCCS.

4. Complete letters to the three banks I have debts with stating CCCS
now assisting me with managing debts.
Post by registered post to banks.

5. Cut up my two credit cards and old current account debit card.

6. Probably have a cry, then hopefully feel relieved.

Moving my repayments to a single payment through the CCCS should make
my monthly repayment £203 per month for the next 5 1/2 years to become debt free
(assuming the interest is stopped).

Total debt (all unsecured) is £13,125 (of which £10,800 is owed to one credit card).

If the banks start phoning me I will send the 'stop phoning me' letter and communicate in writing with them.

Thank you.

scouselad1974

Sounds like a good plan, the best of luck with it all

Ellieseleven

Hi, I've got quite a lot of things on direct debit which I will have to move to the new bank account and I'm not sure the best way to tackle this. Could anyone give me any advice? Did you have to ring around everyone for new DD mandates etc.

It came to me in the night that my mortgage is with the bank that I am moving away from so I wasn't sure how to tackle the DD for this because at this stage they don't know that I am going onto a DMP - I blew this one out of all proportion at 3am i.e. they take my mortgage payment to offset against other debts which puts me into arrears and then they re-possess my home, now rational me knows that this won't happen but my blubbering alter-ego had us homeless and penniless:o

Thanks
Ellie xx

mikon

ukjs1976 wrote: »

I had a phone call today from egg credit card telling me I was over the limit due to interest charges and they want £100 urgently on top of the £278 they will get by direct debit in a few days time.

They basically bullied me into saying I would oay it online by 4pm on
Sunday 25 July (but I can't afford an extra £100 payment to them) so right now I dunno what to do about that.

The phone call today is in fact the first contact I have had about my debts, but I realised it was a matter of a short time a couple of weeks ago, hence I contacted the CCCS. The fact that I got the phone call
has booted me into action.

UKJS1976

Firstly do not pay anything except a token payment of £1 to Egg. Explain to them that you are in financial difficulty difficulty and embarking on a DMP with CCCS. If they ask you for a payment which they probably will just reiterate the above. ALSO ASK FOR THE ACCOUNT TO BE OUT ON OLD FOR 30 DAYS UNTIL THE DMP IS SET UP. This means interest and charges are not applied.

Also read the post I put up yesterday about creditors behavior towards debtors. DO NOT PAY WHAT EGG ARE ASKING YOU TO PAY.

Make sure that you continue your monthly payments albeit on a token payment basis until your DMP is up and running. This is very important.

Creditors will continue to ring you but you can ask them to remove your telephone number from their records and communicate with you in writing.

I hope this helps.