Ancestry.co.uk - The law doesn't apply to them?

benclark_2

Hi guys, just found this in their T&C's and thought it was rather interesting since I don't see how a company can make a Term & or Condition to negates a law. Opinions? Should this be reported to Trading Standards?

"There is a law applying to UK consumer users called the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, which can allow you to cancel monthly subscriptions, quarterly subscriptions, and subscription renewals (usually within seven days). However, you agree in this case that you will not be able to cancel monthly subscriptions, quarterly subscriptions, and subscription renewals in this way once you are able to log on and access subscription areas of the Ancestry.co.uk site."

It's found here - http:// www. ancestry. co.uk/legal/terms.aspx?hideHeader=1

under clause 2.2 (sorry for splitting the link but it won't let me post it otherwise)

Thanks, Ben

neilmcl

Given that this is a US company then I don't think the DSRs would apply anyway

benclark_2

Actually Ancestry are a UK registered company and I believe any international company trading in the UK is still subject to UK law. (Just harder to prosecute them lol)

Name & Registered Office:
ANCESTRY.COM UK LIMITED
AMBERLEY PLACE
107-111 PEASCOD STREET
WINDSOR
BERKSHIRE
SL4 1TE
Company No. 05246359

System

I believe that is correct. Once you have logged on then regulation 13(1)(a) comes in to force and you lose the right to cancel.

once you are able to log on

that is the important bit. As soon as you log on right to cancel disappears.
The above entry in their T&Cs covers the requirement of Regulation 8(3)

mr.savage

benclark wrote: »

Hi guys, just found this in their T&C's and thought it was rather interesting since I don't see how a company can make a Term & or Condition to negates a law. Opinions? Should this be reported to Trading Standards?

"There is a law applying to UK consumer users called the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, which can allow you to cancel monthly subscriptions, quarterly subscriptions, and subscription renewals (usually within seven days). However, you agree in this case that you will not be able to cancel monthly subscriptions, quarterly subscriptions, and subscription renewals in this way once you are able to log on and access subscription areas of the Ancestry.co.uk site."

It's found here - http:// www. ancestry. co.uk/legal/terms.aspx?hideHeader=1

under clause 2.2 (sorry for splitting the link but it won't let me post it otherwise)

Thanks, Ben

How much of those T & C's did you read? Here's the FIRST paragraph:

Terms and Conditions
Before using or subscribing to Ancestry.co.uk,
please review the following terms and conditions which define your rights, responsibilities and benefits as a user of Ancestry.co.uk.
Ancestry.co.uk Licence and Terms and Conditions of Use
Ancestry.co.uk is an Internet service (the "Service") owned and operated by Ancestry, an American company incorporated in Delaware, USA, and whose registered address is 360 W 4800 N Provo, UT 84604, USA .

And from whois:

Domain name:
ancestry.co.uk

Registrant:
Ancestry.com Operations Inc.

Trading as:
Ancestry.com Operations Inc.

Registrant type:
Non-UK Corporation

Registrant's address:
360 W. 4800 N
Provo
UT
84604
United States
So yes, they can ignore the DSR's.

david39

I can see where Ancestry are coming from, though.

If I wanted to look up details of one of my ancestors, I could sign up with them, log on, look up the information I needed and then cancel my subscription.

In fact, I could continue to use them in this way, repeatedly signing on and then cancelling, forever - or until they twigged what I was doing and stopped me.

That would hardly be fair to the company and there must be some provision in law that protects them and similar companies from being used that way.

mr.savage

david39 wrote: »

I can see where Ancestry are coming from, though.

If I wanted to look up details of one of my ancestors, I could sign up with them, log on, look up the information I needed and then cancel my subscription.

In fact, I could continue to use them in this way, repeatedly signing on and then cancelling, forever - or until they twigged what I was doing and stopped me.

That would hardly be fair to the company and there must be some provision in law that protects them and similar companies from being used that way.

Access to Ancestry.co.uk is free at my local library.

Hermia

david39 wrote: »

I can see where Ancestry are coming from, though.

If I wanted to look up details of one of my ancestors, I could sign up with them, log on, look up the information I needed and then cancel my subscription.

I agree, I think they are just protecting themselves.

Don't Ancestry always offer a free trial? Perhaps that's how they can get around the DSRs in that you can see what you are buying.

The_Pedant

I believe what Ancestry are saying is that they will provide you with a service. By proceeding to actually use that service (log in) you are accepting that the supply of that service will end the cancellation period.

This is an allowed exception under regulation 13 of the DSR.

(a) for the supply of services if the supplier has complied with regulation 8(3) and performance of the contract has begun with the consumer's agreement before the end of the cancellation period applicable under regulation 12;

The key clause 8(3) is:

prior to the conclusion of a contract for the supply of services, the supplier shall inform the consumer in writing or in another durable medium which is available and accessible to the consumer that, unless the parties agree otherwise, he will not be able to cancel the contract under regulation 10 once the performance of the services has begun with his agreement.

So, in effect what they're saying is that yes you have paid for a service and that yes, you can cancel. However, much like with digital downloads, once you start to use the service you may no longer cancel.

Well, that's my view on it

benclark_2

The_Pedant wrote: »

I believe what Ancestry are saying is that they will provide you with a service. By proceeding to actually use that service (log in) you are accepting that the supply of that service will end the cancellation period.

This is an allowed exception under regulation 13 of the DSR.

The key clause 8(3) is:

So, in effect what they're saying is that yes you have paid for a service and that yes, you can cancel. However, much like with digital downloads, once you start to use the service you may no longer cancel.

Well, that's my view on it

Thanks for the replies guys, while the parent company is indeed US based, they are registered in the UK as I pointed out.

@The Pedant - Thanks for your reply that explains why they can do that. I wasn't complaining (indeed I've had quite a few free trials out of them :-) ) but I was wondering if it was legal to say a law doesn't apply to you so it's interesting to hear about the clauses built into the law which I didn't know about. The only bad part of their clause is that its once you can sign in, not once you have, effectively the second you sign up you give up the right to cancel, thankfully they give that back to you in the free trial so actually they benefit you with 14 days to cancel rather than 7, talk about confusing lol

mr.savage

benclark wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys, while the parent company is indeed US based, they are registered in the UK as I pointed out.

@The Pedant - Thanks for your reply that explains why they can do that. I wasn't complaining (indeed I've had quite a few free trials out of them :-) ) but I was wondering if it was legal to say a law doesn't apply to you so it's interesting to hear about the clauses built into the law which I didn't know about. The only bad part of their clause is that its once you can sign in, not once you have, effectively the second you sign up you give up the right to cancel, thankfully they give that back to you in the free trial so actually they benefit you with 14 days to cancel rather than 7, talk about confusing lol

Which bit of the following quote did you not understand?

mr.savage wrote: »

Ancestry.co.uk is an Internet service (the "Service") owned and operated by Ancestry, an American company incorporated in Delaware, USA, and whose registered address is 360 W 4800 N Provo, UT 84604, USA .

It doesn't matter if they have a subsidary office in London or Timbuctoo, The website is owned and operated by the U.S parent company.