Biggest cuts since second world war

bendix

And yet, Sphynx, the Office of National Statistics (one of your public sector bodies, ironically) tells us that it is a FACT that public sector salaries are higher than private sector salaries.

So let's put that little myth to bed finally, shall we?

Nobody is denying - for the record - that teachers, soldiers etc deserve what they get. Where you will find the growing resentment is the 'Breast-feeding coordinators', the 'Diversity Managers', the hundreds of thousands of middle managers, 'the Walking Coordinator's etc (see yesterday's Sunday Times for more examples), that just make a mockery of the words 'public' and 'service'.

Geoffo_M

Linton wrote: »

People keep on suggesting public service pensions as an area to cut. It may well be.

But if they moved the public sector to a defined contribution scheme today it would make little difference for perhaps 20 years. After all you cant removed benefits that people have already earned up til now. People would still be receiving some amount in final salary pensions for perhaps the next 60 years.

So unfortunately you are going to have to look elsewhere if you want to cut to reduce the deficit in the next 5 years.

What rubbish. When my private sector final-salary pension disappeared & became a defined benefits scheme, the effect was immediate. What we didn't have of course, was a union that would fight to the end on our behalf.

Sphynx

I have to say I agree with that. There is too much waste in the public sector. Unnecessary jobs, and lots of people sitting round on their bums doing very little. I am not one of them though and yet I will be paying through the nose because of them. Also it is very hard to compare public sector work to the private sector (I am again talking about the soldiers, police etc). There are not very many comparables (except possibly in teaching and a complete guess but don't private school teachers get paid more)

Andy_L

Geoffo_M wrote: »

What rubbish. When my private sector final-salary pension disappeared & became a defined benefits scheme, the effect was immediate. What we didn't have of course, was a union that would fight to the end on our behalf.

Linton means it wouldn't have an immediate effect on the nations finances since, as most of the schmes are unfunded, the savings wouldn't appear for 20-30 years

Thrugelmir

michaels wrote: »

Several European countries have actually cut benefits and public sector wages.

The NHS currently has quotas as to how many Irish nursing staff can be employed. As there are concerns as to the number trying to leave Eire to work in the UK. In the UK there is currently a shortgage of people willing to take full time posts, preferring to work as agency instead.

StevieJ

nomoneytoday wrote: »

And how much do we get out from Europe?
How much additional trade do we do with no import tariff barriers to entry?
Where are we in the scale compared to Germany and France?

We could have all that without the bureaucracy (and the cost), like it was many moons ago.

simongregson

Sphynx wrote: »

(I am again talking about the soldiers, police etc). There are not very many comparables (except possibly in teaching and a complete guess but don't private school teachers get paid more)

Indeed, private school teachers get paid more in general and have longer holidays, although they are expected to do more in the way of extra-curricular activities. You might argue they have a lot less to deal with in terms of behaviour management, plus the much smaller class size means a lot less marking and reporting.

A lot of private schools contract into the teachers pension scheme, which was recently renegociated between teacher unions and the government so it remains affordable, by increasing retirement age and reducing early retirement options. These changes only applied to new entrants to the scheme. The average teacher pension is around £10,000pa apparently.

The average teacher salary is probably around £27-30000 (pay range is around 20000 - 35000) if you exclude headteachers/managers, a decent enough wage but way less than my friends with similar degrees and experience who work in the private sector or in other public sector jobs. Probably fair enough given the additional holidays though!

I expect a lot of the changes in the private sector are due to there not being union representation to negociate a reasonable solution that is fair to members who have based their decision to contribute on the expected (and in many case 'guaranteed') benefits available, as another poster said. If this were the case I suspect schemes would only have closed to new entrants, like in a number of larger and more unionised companies.

So in summary I could get a job in the private education sector for more cash and the same or more benefits. At the moment the differential is not enough to make me consider this, I enjoy working with all sorts of students and not just those whose parents can afford to pay, but obviously I have to consider my own family and future too.

chucky

bendix wrote: »

And yet, Sphynx, the Office of National Statistics (one of your public sector bodies, ironically) tells us that it is a FACT that public sector salaries are higher than private sector salaries.

So let's put that little myth to bed finally, shall we?

it's not actually a myth... well it's a myth if you'd like to believe that it's a myth...

the lower paid public sector jobs are out-sourced and not included as public sector salaries but are included in the private sector salary stats - that's why the numbers show the public sector salaries are higher.

marklv

amcluesent wrote: »

Now and again we read that the public debt is equivalent to £30k (approx) per person in Britain.

Now, supposing people who had that money sitting in the bank sent a 'one off' cheque to the Treasury. What future entitlements should that 'buy' in return for cash today which will offset decades of interest payable on govt. bonds?

I'd be happy to pay £30K tomorrow in return for -

1) Guaranteed free place in nursing home in old age until death
2) Waiving of NICE bans on 'too expensive' drugs on the NHS, effective immediately
3) Contribution based JSA payable indefinitely, if unwaged
4) Doubling of personal tax allowance until retirement, effective immediately
5) 'No charge' any time caught on speed scameras, effective immediately

HMG should offer a 'menu' of incentives to peeps and I'm sure they'd get takers to make capital payments to Treasury.

The problem is that most people don't have £30k in their bank accounts!

marklv

bendix wrote: »

And yet, Sphynx, the Office of National Statistics (one of your public sector bodies, ironically) tells us that it is a FACT that public sector salaries are higher than private sector salaries.

So let's put that little myth to bed finally, shall we?

Nobody is denying - for the record - that teachers, soldiers etc deserve what they get. Where you will find the growing resentment is the 'Breast-feeding coordinators', the 'Diversity Managers', the hundreds of thousands of middle managers, 'the Walking Coordinator's etc (see yesterday's Sunday Times for more examples), that just make a mockery of the words 'public' and 'service'.

You keep peddling this outrageous lie like a modern Joseph Goebbels: 'the bigger the lie, the more easily it will be believed'. Indeed!

It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that the public sector is not the exact equivalent of the private sector, so any comparison is meaningless unless weighted according to job type.

And your mockery of job titles is typically stupid of a keen reader of gutter press articles. The job title is irrelevant, it's the content that matters - a lot of these silly job titles are actually worthwhile and valuable jobs once you read the description carefully. And similarly moronic job titles can be found in the private sector as well.