How do I approach the money issue...

ajmoney

This is how we work the finances. The house is in my name and all the bills go out of my account. OH pays me "rent" each month which is for half of all the house related bills. We have a separate joint account which we pay the same amount into each month which we use for shopping and any leisure activities that we fancy, if it runs low we both top it up. Eventually when we move house the mortgage will be a joint one and we will probably start paying for that from a joint account too. We are both independant with our money but this works for us as we don't have to remember who owes for what or I paid for this so you pay for that.

I think if you approach the topic with her, say it is because you want to discuss things with her so in future there are no worried about you offending her. That way you will find out how she feels about the money situations.

peachyprice

Tropez wrote: »

You have pretty much confirmed what I believed about how any offer to buy into her business would be received. I think it would be best if I just stuck to helping her out with the odd chore that needs doing, although perhaps advising her in advance of any cost it incurred to me so that she no longer feels insecure about it.

I think that really is the way forward. But before you do the little chores actually ask her if it's OK, tell her what you want to do and how it will benefit her, and if she asks how much it will cost, tell her and let her pay you for any parts you've bought etc. Again, if you really don't want to take the money back for yourself, put it in the house bank account so you still feel as if you've helped her out, which is obviously important to you.

Tropez

Wow, so many responses. Thank you to everyone who has responded. I am sure that this forum has some sort of rules regarding repeated responses so as not to break them I shall respond to the newest responses in this one post.

Eric's Mum - Thank you. You're right. When it comes to days/nights out that we've planned maybe it is time that I suggest that we split the bill and reserve me paying outright for when it is something that I arranged myself. Hopefully this would be less inclined to cause her to feel bad and then of course it would allow her to reciprocate if she wished and feel more equal - if that makes sense?

And yes, maybe the way I behave is something different to her. I had a rather "traditional" upbringing - husband earning, wife homemaking - and I suppose I tend to echo the way my father behaved. I understand her upbringing was very different to mine and so perhaps I didn't consider that in terms of money she would have expected a more equal role.

Psykicpup - Thank you for your thoughts too. Everyone is so helpful here.

I shall definitely refrain from offering any money to her business given how such a move may be perceived. I suppose you also make a point with the joint account and the fledgling business although I know she does have what she likes to refer to as "Plan B" so I believe in her ability.

Your idea is an interesting one though. I think it would be very helpful to see how much the bills go up with her living here. As I mentioned previously, recently (over the past few months) when not working she has spent more time here than at her home although I haven't noticed any real changes to the bills thus far. Still, yes, it could be practical to approach things from that direction and is certainly something to consider.

Oldernotwiser - I am unsure as I have yet to discuss this with her. I assume that it is mortgaged although (and I know this might make me sound a tad elitist but it isn't intended as such) the house is in a relatively low income area where house prices are generally quite low so it is possible she owns it outright. I would leave what she does with it up to her as I believe she knows what is best for her.

Foggster - As above, I haven't really discussed it with her. To be honest, the issue of moving in is only cropping up because she spends so much time here now (when she isn't working that is) and has usurped several of my drawers and wardrobes as well as filling my bathroom with her toiletries so it leads me to believe this is where our relationship is heading. I will allow her to do whatever she believes to be best with her home although I will offer advice if she specifically asks me for it.

Tropez

ajmoney wrote: »

This is how we work the finances. The house is in my name and all the bills go out of my account. OH pays me "rent" each month which is for half of all the house related bills. We have a separate joint account which we pay the same amount into each month which we use for shopping and any leisure activities that we fancy, if it runs low we both top it up. Eventually when we move house the mortgage will be a joint one and we will probably start paying for that from a joint account too. We are both independant with our money but this works for us as we don't have to remember who owes for what or I paid for this so you pay for that.

I think if you approach the topic with her, say it is because you want to discuss things with her so in future there are no worried about you offending her. That way you will find out how she feels about the money situations.

Thank you. Your way seems quite reasonable. And I do need to ensure that I don't offend her further so I think that is one way I could approach the subject. Thanks again.

peachyprice wrote: »

I think that really is the way forward. But before you do the little chores actually ask her if it's OK, tell her what you want to do and how it will benefit her, and if she asks how much it will cost, tell her and let her pay you for any parts you've bought etc. Again, if you really don't want to take the money back for yourself, put it in the house bank account so you still feel as if you've helped her out, which is obviously important to you.

Thanks again. I've only ever done these little things for her when she has specifically asked for my assistance with something - she's the first to admit she's not very technical whereas I am, to be quite honest, a complete nerd, so it is quite simple for me to fix most of her computer issues when she has them. I guess I have always just gone the extra step rather than stopping at what she told me to do because I just want to make her life easier so I've done a few things and spent a bit on her without her actually asking me to go that far.

You are right though, I should explain what I am doing for her better rather than pointing out after the fact that I did this and that and give her a chance to offer to pay for it before I storm ahead and do it.

Primrose

It will be difficult for your girlfriend to become less independently minded if she moves in with you. She has obviously grown up with the concept that she should take responsibility for herself so a joint household account seems the best route to go, based proportionately on your respective incomes.

Perhaps she hasn't yet been able to shake off the feeling that if you pay for things for her, she is being "bought" and if the topic of your moving in together crops up again it might be sensible for you to first ask her whether any specific thing has triggered her need to be so independent at all times. Maybe you need to point out that a relationship isn't just about sharing or dividing out the money. It's about the giving and receiving of love and care. Would she, for example, object if she was physically very ill or sick and you stepped in to help her or is this objection to "receiving" on her part just about money?

If she moves in with you, then it's an issue about how, and on what basis you are going to share your future life together. I'm intrigued that you're talking about moving in together rather than getting married. I wonder whether if you were talking about getting married, she would have the same fierce independent attitude towards money, or whether your house sharing proposal intimates a lack of commitment on your part to her that makes her determined to keep her independence because you seem unprepared to sign up permanently for a lifetime's journey for ever and she still needs to be sure she's looking after her own interests.

Another thing may be worrying her. If she's going to move in with you, what are you going to suggest is going to happen to her house? That she sells it so that if you fall out, she will end up being homeless? Or will you encourage her to keep it and let it out so that you're giving her the reassurance that you're not trying to pull her independence from under her feet if it all goes wrong?

I don't think this is just about whether she shares the bills. It may be that she's trying to prove something to herself that she always wants be an equal partner. In a solid permanent relationship there is rarely a full time equal partner. Illness, redundancy, having babies and other things often mean that the strength of partners swings from one to the other for periods of time. Until she can accept that and trust you that you will care for her if one of those things happens without appearing to have an ulterior motive of "taking advantage of her", you might be advised to delay the house sharing idea.

Tropez

Primrose wrote: »

It will be difficult for your girlfriend to become less independently minded if she moves in with you. She has obviously grown up with the concept that she should take responsibility for herself so a joint household account seems the best route to go, based proportionately on your respective incomes.

Perhaps she hasn't yet been able to shake off the feeling that if you pay for things for her, she is being "bought" and if the topic of your moving in together crops up again it might be sensible for you to first ask her whether any specific thing has triggered her need to be so independent at all times. Maybe you need to point out that a relationship isn't just about sharing or dividing out the money. It's about the giving and receiving of love and care. Would she, for example, object if she was physically very ill or sick and you stepped in to help her or is this objection to "receiving" on her part just about money?

If she moves in with you, then it's an issue about how, and on what basis you are going to share your future life together. I'm intrigued that you're talking about moving in together rather than getting married. I wonder whether if you were talking about getting married, she would have the same fierce independent attitude towards money, or whether your house sharing proposal intimates a lack of commitment on your part to her that makes her determined to keep her independence because you seem unprepared to sign up permanently for a lifetime's journey for ever and she still needs to be sure she's looking after her own interests.

Another thing may be worrying her. If she's going to move in with you, what are you going to suggest is going to happen to her house? That she sells it so that if you fall out, she will end up being homeless? Or will you encourage her to keep it and let it out so that you're giving her the reassurance that you're not trying to pull her independence from under her feet if it all goes wrong?

I don't think this is just about whether she shares the bills. It may be that she's trying to prove something to herself that she always wants be an equal partner. In a solid permanent relationship there is rarely a full time equal partner. Illness, redundancy, having babies and other things often mean that the strength of partners swings from one to the other for periods of time. Until she can accept that and trust you that you will care for her if one of those things happens without appearing to have an ulterior motive of "taking advantage of her", you might be advised to delay the house sharing idea.

Thank you and I appreciate your thoughts on the subject.

I would first like to approach the subject of marriage. My girlfriend has in the past made it quite clear that she is not too fond of the idea of marriage. I understand that her parents divorced whilst she was a teenager and it was somewhat messy. To this day, her relationship with both her mother and father is somewhat strained and she has little contact with any member of her family, save for obligatory Mother's Day dinners and the like. She has also, unfortunately, seen some of her closest friends go through unpleasant divorces which appears to have soured her further against the idea of marriage. While I can only attempt to make it my goal in life to convince her just how much I love her and wish to spend my life with her, I find it difficult to see marriage in our future unless I sense that her attitude to it has significantly changed.

I believe that part of her desire to be independant stems from this. She was very quick to leave the family home after college (well of course, it was not a "family" home anymore by that point) and I get the impression that there is a degree to which she has become used to fending for herself. Perhaps, therefore, I have been insensitive by conducting myself the way I have around her and she has indeed misconstrued my attempts to make her happy with something more unsavoury. I realise it is my duty to make her understand this was never my intention should it be the case.

I have absolutely no intention of suggesting what she do with her home and would only make a suggestion if she asked for my advice; even then I would be more inclined to suggest she seeks guidance from an independant third-party expert. Whatever did happen, I am certainly not vindictive enough to see anybody out on the street.

I do believe the crux of the issue is to do with money. I believe that she has interpreted the way I automatically pay for everything as something negative. I have looked after her when she has been ill, dropping everything to run errands for her and take care of whatever she needs doing and she has always shown nothing but affection and appreciation for this. I firmly believe that she knows that I care for her and knows that I would support her through anything but I feel that I have been somewhat insensitive. Without wishing to sound arrogant, perhaps she is annoyed that she never gets the opportunity to spend her money on me? But on the whole, I'm inclined to think that she simply wants to be an equal partner on the financial front and I should have been more receptive to this to begin with.

kat74

I once dated a guy who earned a fair bit more than me - we were just at the dating stage, so didn't have house costs to deal with, but, similar to your GF I am quite independant and used to paying my own way.
He had a bigger house/car/income etc.. than me and I was very concious that I didn't want him to feel that I was 'after' his money, or I expected him to pay for things. Has she explained why she doesn't like you reaching for your wallet?
We found a balance whereby if he offered to organise/pay for a meal out he'd book somewhere a bit upmarket, if it was my turn, it'd be a picnic, or somewhere a bit more low-key, but equally enjoyable. Would something like this work with you?
Or is there anything you can ask her to help with? You say you sorted out the anti-virus stuff - is there anything that she can do better than you? Illustrate that it's not just about the money, it's about helping and supporting each other in the ways you're each best able to.
You sound like a lovely guy though - I'm sure you'll both work it out!

Tropez

kat74 wrote: »

I once dated a guy who earned a fair bit more than me - we were just at the dating stage, so didn't have house costs to deal with, but, similar to your GF I am quite independant and used to paying my own way.
He had a bigger house/car/income etc.. than me and I was very concious that I didn't want him to feel that I was 'after' his money, or I expected him to pay for things. Has she explained why she doesn't like you reaching for your wallet?
We found a balance whereby if he offered to organise/pay for a meal out he'd book somewhere a bit upmarket, if it was my turn, it'd be a picnic, or somewhere a bit more low-key, but equally enjoyable. Would something like this work with you?
Or is there anything you can ask her to help with? You say you sorted out the anti-virus stuff - is there anything that she can do better than you? Illustrate that it's not just about the money, it's about helping and supporting each other in the ways you're each best able to.
You sound like a lovely guy though - I'm sure you'll both work it out!

Thanks for your comments.

When she confronted me she was annoyed about the fact that I went to pay a relatively small bill with my debit card when she had enough cash on her and argued that it made her angry that I never let her pay for anything. I had never really considered this before, it was just natural for me to reach for my wallet. She was just basically unhappy that I did this without ever giving her the chance to settle a bill and I got the feeling she felt this was a slur on her in some way. It has since occured to me maybe with her business having a rough patch she just wants to prove that she's quite capable of keeping going and doesn't need handouts from me.

I'm sure there are some things that she could do for me. She does do things round the house when she's here that I don't ask her to do. She tidies up and does some washing up because she thinks I'm a fool for using a dishwasher :rotfl: But I appreciate she wouldn't want her input to be restricted to those type of things. She's also very clever and has helped me with some theoretical work on an Open University course I do in my spare time. She seems to enjoy discussing these subjects so I could probably allow her to help me out more.

Primrose

Maybe after her disfunctional family background there's a small part of her which equates money with power, and you having more money equates in her eyes, to exercising power over her, although not necessarily in a malignant way. You sound very thoughtful and sensitive. I'm not sure how long you've been in your relationship. When I met my OH, I was earning more than him and he was financially dependent on my to a certain extent. Over the years the balance changed. We always regarded each other as equal partners from the start, and treated it each other accordingly. Perhaps you're the first boyfriend she's had who hasn't taken advantage of her and she hasn't quite yet got used to letting her guard down.

Tropez

Primrose wrote: »

Maybe after her disfunctional family background there's a small part of her which equates money with power, and you having more money equates in her eyes, to exercising power over her, although not necessarily in a malignant way. You sound very thoughtful and sensitive. I'm not sure how long you've been in your relationship. When I met my OH, I was earning more than him and he was financially dependent on my to a certain extent. Over the years the balance changed. We always regarded each other as equal partners from the start, and treated it each other accordingly. Perhaps you're the first boyfriend she's had who hasn't taken advantage of her and she hasn't quite yet got used to letting her guard down.

Thank you and you are possibly right, it is something I hadn't considered before. We've been together for about three and a half years but have taken the relationship fairly slowly. I don't know much about her prior relationships except that she wasn't in a relationship for four years before we became a couple and that somebody hurt her in the past. I've never pryed into that though as I don't want to open old wounds.

Thank you for your thoughts. It has given me something to think about so I appreciate it.