Fined £270 Even Though I Had Car Insurance - Fighting Since June 2009!

Marv02

rev_henry wrote: »

...

Hi, over the past hour I managed to cook something up, I've been a little busy latly and had no time. Below is something that I think is half complete, not sure how to have started the letter off, but I've underlined what I think shouldn't be in the final draft, or that sounds out of place, in blue.

Dear Mrs. XXX

(If you receive this letter after you have issued a refund, then please accept my sincere apologizes. But the reason I am writing this today, is because I doubt you have.)

In the previous letter I sent you for appeal, I clearly gave you all the necessary documentation required to have completed your investigation within a few days. Included in the previous letter was a detailed cover of the incident, the Certificate of Motor Insurance (CoMI), the ticket issued on the road side and a copy of my bank statement underlining the charges. All these combined should have been enough to have allowed you to complete the investigation, and have issued me a refund. It has now been 36 days and I still haven't heard a word back from you.

Frankly, I feel disgusted by they way this situation has been handled, and I am now seeking compensation for the 1.6 years I have been trying to obtain a refund, to no avail. I have spent countless months traveling to Deptford Police station, writing into tens of departments, and the never ending phone calls that frankly, I have lost track off. Being at the age I am, with a serious heart condition, I only see it fair that I am compensated XXX for the amount for physical stress, and financial strain these events have caused me over the past 18 months.

I am setting a deadline of 14 days for this investigation to be completed and for me to be fully refunded and compensated the said amount above.

Sincerely,

Mr XXXXX XXXXXX

If you, or anyone for that matter, could help me start, or even finish this the right way, I would greatly appreciate it. I personally think "Sincerely" sounds to nice... And I think I should mention threatening to take them to court somewhere, but I'm not too sure where, or even if I should.

Regards,

Wig

Torby wrote: »

Just read through the whole thread and based on my own experiences with the Police and from what I have seen witnessed elsewhere it really sounds a bit weird, e.g.

2 scenarios:

1: stopped by the police, asked for insurance details, apologise to the officer for not having documents, explain insurance only taken out this morning, give ins co name, suggest if its helpful, phone the company for confirmation, no answer? Show my licence anyway, happily give all my details so they can check I'm licenced to drive etc (gives opportunity to confirm my details on the police computer in case I was wanted...lol) nothing there?...ok... ask officer if I can "produce" my details at a station of my choice once paperwork arrives...next morn, phone ins company ask them to extract the digit and explain why there is some urgency, even fax/email details of my transaction etc to me so in the interim, I can produce these.

2: stopped by the police, asked for insurance details, ask "cop", why am I getting stopped, police ask me for my licence, haven't got it on me, police ask for proof I own/have just purchased the car, haven't got any, can't remember who I bought it from, can't remember my address, can't remember when I passed my test, ask the "cop" has he nothing better to do with his time than pick on xxxxx, xxxx, xxxx fill in whatever you like here...age, race, colour, "cop" says...right you're nicked, the cars being impounded....you say how do I get home..."cop" says your problem. Car gets impounded.

there's 3 sides to most stories, your side, their side and the right side....may be a bit of both sides in the right side...from what you have said so far...my own observations on the road and these wonderful police tv programs....I have made my mind up about what happened to you, perhaps with a bit more info from you, everyone else on the thread may get a better perspective on it as well.

You're an idiot if you think that your 1st scenario will always result in a producer being given. The police are very reluctant to issue producers these days because it has been hammered home to them that the prefferred route is the vehicle seizure. Personally I and certain Chief Commisioners consider seizing a vehicle simply because the police officer cannot show that it is insured to be not only unreasonable and unacceptable but also unlawful.

BLT_2

Marv02 wrote: »

Hi, over the past hour I managed to cook something up, I've been a little busy latly and had no time. Below is something that I think is half complete, not sure how to have started the letter off, but I've underlined what I think shouldn't be in the final draft, or that sounds out of place, in blue.

If you, or anyone for that matter, could help me start, or even finish this the right way, I would greatly appreciate it. I personally think "Sincerely" sounds to nice... And I think I should mention threatening to take them to court somewhere, but I'm not too sure where, or even if I should.

Regards,

The letter you have written has a number of flaws. It is too emotional (remember you are dealing with a public body) and your figures are too generic.

You need to give specifics. Referring to hundreds of phone calls and tens of letters could be seen as exaggerations unless you provide exact dates.

Similarly your letter refers to 'my previous letter' without giving a specific date.

Sorry, but you asked for critique.

Just finish it off with 'yours'

Wig

jkdd77 wrote: »

I sympthsiase greatly with the OP.

This topic was discussed recently on another well-known motoring forum, and the conclusions were:
-the impound charge was lawfully made
-there is no recourse whatsoever under English law, notwithstanding that the OP did nothing wrong
-the above is most probably a human rights breach [by imposing a de facto fine on an innocent person, without any trial or proof of wrongdoing, and without any remedy whatsoever]. However, taking a case to the European Court of Human Rights would take several years and cost hundred of thousands of pounds, with no 100% guarantee of success.

This appalls me too. :mad:

I think the 1st and 2nd conclusions were incorrect

The officer under the law has to have Reasonable cause to believe that the car is being driven without insurance or licence. An officer outside business hours cannot contact the insurer, has no reason to believe that the driver is lying, because the driver has given all correct information so far that can be verified his driving licence details are correct (which can be done) etc etc.

It would be unreasonable for an officer to seize a vehicle when faced with an outwardly law abiding citizen who has supplied correct information and has and is acting reasonably to support that he is probably not lying to the officer.

I do not remember which one, but a certain Police Commisioner has said publicly that his force is not allowed to seize a vehicle under these circumstances that he considers to do so would be unlawful.

If something is unlawful there is ALWAYS recourse under the law to be taken. The 3rd step I imagine would be a small claims case against the local constabulary for the refund of the amount that has been lost by the OP.

What are the 1st and 2nd steps I hear you asking

1st step visit police station & follow instructions - done
next 1st step escalate problem by writing to chief constable - done?
After having a discussion by letter with the chief constable if it appears they are not going to refund your loss
next 1st step take some legal advice (not necessarily from a solicitor) and decide if the next step will be a small claim.

2nd step inform the chief constable that you intend to take the 2nd step (whatever that may be) - probably a small claim give him at least 7 days to respond and then

3rd step - start proceedings. It may be they have "Crown Immunity" but I would find that very hard to believe.

Wig

Marv02 wrote: »

Hi, over the past hour I managed to cook something up, I've been a little busy latly and had no time. Below is something that I think is half complete, not sure how to have started the letter off, but I've underlined what I think shouldn't be in the final draft, or that sounds out of place, in blue.

If you, or anyone for that matter, could help me start, or even finish this the right way, I would greatly appreciate it. I personally think "Sincerely" sounds to nice... And I think I should mention threatening to take them to court somewhere, but I'm not too sure where, or even if I should.

Regards,

I'll be honest, I haven't read the whole thread, I only read half of that first letter you posted earlier in the thread, I assume this is a follow up to that letter. Is this going to the Chief constable of the said police station? If not who is the Miss/Mrs person?


My attempt at an improvement - without knowing the history it's difficult to do....

Mrs Mullins
Deptford Police station
Amersham Vale
London
SE14 6LG

CC Rt Hon Joan Ruddock
House of Commons,
London
SW1A 0AA

12 Sept 2010

Bob Milligan
My Address
Here


Dear Mrs Mullins

RE: Seizure of vehicle Reg: X345 YYY on 12/06/2009

I am writing as I have had no reply to my letter dated 30/07/10 -copy enclosed- this is concerning the costs I incurred when my vehicle was seized.

Please note that I have to date, not received any reply on this matter from any of the departments that I have written to, I have merely been passed from one department to another. I urge you to please give this matter your consideration and let me know your thoughts on this as soon as possible.

Yours Sincerely

Bob Milligan

I would also copy this to your MP as shown on the letter above. And whatever you do don't send your version.

Wig

Can you say who you have written to on this, and what replies in writing have you had so far?

Marv02

Wig wrote: »

Can you say who you have written to on this, and what replies in writing have you had so far?

Hi, I'll try to brief out and sum up the whole thread and situation, keeping it as short and simple as possible.

To keep it short, after an hour of going back and forth with the officer, he said that he will get the car impounded, but gave me his word that if I could prove I had insurance, no fines or fees would be charged. (why even question this, right?)

We had to wait around... 10 days? For the insurance papers to come through, by this time, the charges for impound came to a good £270. They said I must be dreaming if I thought I wasn't going to pay, as no such thing existed, and forced me under duress to pay, otherwise my car would be crushed the following Monday. (they wern't open on weekends, so I was doomed.) They also mentioned if I wanted to take up on a refund, I would have to go back to the police station where to officer resides.

Now, here's were it all went down hill. For months of going back and forth to the police station, every time I visit a different address was given to me to write into. Each time, I was told to wait up to 28 days for a reply. (I wanted to kill her for even telling me it would take that long but meh.)

I waited for months on end, no replies. After a serious illness in the family, I had to go abroad, and stayed there for quite some time. I returned back around November? And after a month, I returned back to follow up on the never ending case and went back to the police station. They, again, gave me tons of different numbers and addresses to contact. No replies, or completely irrelevant departments.

I don't blame the people at the station, because they admitted to me that they've never had a case like this before, so they were not sure who to direct me too. (impounded, and HAD to pay the charges, even though I had insurance? Surely that's a brain buster.)

I couldn't take it anymore, so I came on here to post for help. I can't afford a lawyer or a solicitor, so I'd thought I try my luck. After a good few weeks of people telling me I'm tough out of luck, someone mentioned the "DPS" for which I wrote in a detailed cover letter to, along with all the documentation. After a month, they got back to me telling me I contacted the wrong department, and gave me the address to the department that I was suppose to write into. I came to notice that this department I already wrote into several times in the past, and no replies ever received.

This time, I sent it recorded delivery, and special delivery. A few days go by and what do you know? I receive a reply. They said to me they will be conducting an investigation, and will get back to me, in good time. (yeah right)

And this is why I wrote the letter above, it has now been 36 days since they sent me the first letter that they would be looking into it, and I feel appalled its taken this long. I gave them EVERYTHING they needed to have open, and shut this case within a few hours, let alone days, but for the sake of it, lets say it would have taken a couple of days. T

o be honest, I would really like to be compensated for the headaches I have been going through over the past 18 months. I mean, they just can't put me through all this, and have me loose out some in the end. Yes, I (probbally will) get my money back, but why should this be at my expense, giving them the impression, they are doing me a favour? The stress I've been under for knowing I've lost out all the money, and being ignored for months, is unexplainable. I mean £270 was a lot of money, and it strained me loads, financially. They should be compensating me for this. I'm just not sure how to ask.

And nope, never was I told to write into a constable. So I never did that.


Regards.

Marv02

BLT wrote: »

The letter you have written has a number of flaws. It is too emotional (remember you are dealing with a public body) and your figures are too generic.

You need to give specifics. Referring to hundreds of phone calls and tens of letters could be seen as exaggerations unless you provide exact dates.

Similarly your letter refers to 'my previous letter' without giving a specific date.

Sorry, but you asked for critique.

Just finish it off with 'yours'

No problem this is what I need. Corrected before I send it. By hundreds of phone calls, it was most probably 20 "numbers" but I've lost count of how many times I've called, over and over, and over again for months. I have a list of the names of departments I've written into (well, the ones that I could find that I scribbled down) and after finding numbers for them, called them up to find out they were a completely irrelevant departments.

Are you telling me that I can not be compensated for the stress and headache they've left me under for the past 1.6 years? I've seen people be compensated for the smallest and stupidest of things... This is no longer small, or stupid... It's a clear !!!! take.

Marv02

Wig wrote: »

Can you say who you have written to on this, and what replies in writing have you had so far?

Oh sorry, not sure if I awenserd this post right. In order to keep names out of the thread, I will PM you the recent department and names I've been in contact with.

rev_henry

Hi Marv,
I think as someone said your letter is a bit too emotional and polite. Be more demanding in your tone. You've finished by kinda implying I'm setting this arbitrary deadline after which nothing will happen. I'd put something like. 'I therefore request a full refund of £270 plus £100 compensation to cover interest over the last 1.6 years, undue stress to myself, my time wasted making x number of fruitless trips to Deptford Police Station, and the cost of the numerous telephone calls and letters I have detailed above. If I do not receive a satisfactory response within 14 days I shall be contacting my solicitor and local press as this is beyond a joke and has gone on long enough'

Yours sincerely. Put yours sincerely because you're addressing a person by name. Them's the rules of letter writings.

Sorry if I'm just bouncing ideas off you a bit here, but consider just calling your local paper in the morning, ask to speak to a reporter, and tell them your story. Whenever I've contacted my local press they've always printed something or other about it. If one local paper is more 'moany' or likes to slag off public bodies then try that first. Maybe even see if a national rag like the Mail is interested. They seem to like that kinda thing.
Usually you'll find when you see such stories in the papers 'X organisation has now offered Mr Y a full refund and apology...' towards the end.