Labours legacy: 172 civil servant paid more then PM

wolvoman

marklv wrote: »

Taxpayers are precisely that: payers of tax. The tax due is therefore the property of the state, not of the tax payers, in the same way that money handed over to a company in exchange for goods and services is no longer the property of the buyer. Do you understand this simple concept or do you require further explanation?

In my years of being a member on this website, I have never seen such an arrogant or contemptuous statement.

To actually believe that the government has its OWN money, to do with as IT pleases regardless of the effect of the people who gave it to them in the first place.


Your analogy to a private company is way off the mark. Any company that starts to use fees/charges from customers NOT to improve the service/products to its customers is likely to fail pretty rapidly.

A._Badger

marklv wrote: »

Who the hell are you to call people 'overpaid idiots'? Maybe you are one of them!

There's an easy answer to that one. I am because I am forced to pay their inflated wages.

A._Badger

MrTomato wrote: »

And what's that got to do with you saying they're hosed with money? I'm saying they have limited resources and would function better with more funding causing less criticism for the CE saying he's overpaid.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that the manager responsible for that hospital wasn't grossly overpaid? Or those of the numerous other trusts and hospitals whose performance is so poor? Yes there are good areas of the NHS. There are also disaster areas due to the top-down Soviet-style system with its dysfunctional management structure.

As for hosing money - yes. The last government more than tripled the NHS budget and if that isn't hosing money at it, I'd like to know which area has
done better.

MrTomato

A._Badger wrote: »

Are you seriously trying to suggest that the manager responsible for that hospital wasn't grossly overpaid? Or those of the numerous other trusts and hospitals whose performance is so poor? Yes there are good areas of the NHS. There are also disaster areas due to the top-down Soviet-style system with its dysfunctional management structure.

As for hosing money - yes. The last government more than tripled the NHS budget and if that isn't hosing money at it, I'd like to know which area has
done better.

So let's take the highest pay in the NHS. About £240k. What should it be at?

marklv

wolvoman wrote: »

In my years of being a member on this website, I have never seen such an arrogant or contemptuous statement.

To actually believe that the government has its OWN money, to do with as IT pleases regardless of the effect of the people who gave it to them in the first place.

Your analogy to a private company is way off the mark. Any company that starts to use fees/charges from customers NOT to improve the service/products to its customers is likely to fail pretty rapidly.

The state is not a company and does not need to market its products or services. And while the citizens of the state are perfectly entitled to complain and elect different political parties to government, the fact remains that the functions of a modern state cannot be maintained without taxation. Failure to raise tax will lead to a breakdown of society and anarchy - is that what you want? You cannot expect a particular tailored service for the tax you pay - it doesn't work like that. It's a question of: 'from each according to his ability to pay to each according to his need'. Your consumerist mentality doesn't work when you have to govern a country.

vivatifosi

marklv wrote: »

The state is not a company and does not need to market its products or services.

Are you saying then, that the thousands of people working in marketing functions in the public sector should be cut?

princeofpounds

The main difference between 'ownership' if revenue between governments and corporations is that governments are in the privileged position of being able to use coercion in order to extract revenues. That position must be accompanied by certain moral responsibilities to the taxpayer if that privilege is not to turn into abuse.

Yes, legally governments can have total discretion over their revenues within the legal framework, but because they design that very same legal framework judging a government solely against that framework is a very erroneous way to proceed!