National ID Cards

Mr_Lahey

jammin wrote: »

I don't buy that. I understand that the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats are against the spirit of the National Identity Register and of compulsory identity cards and, for this reason, they are scrapping the NIR and the issuance of any new cards. That's fine.

But I fail to see why (other than out of principal?), the government are removing the validity of existing NICs as European travel documents. The UK NIC and the photo page of the UK passport are identical.

A national ID card by its very definition must be supported by the government. If the UK government does not support them it is easy to see why no other countries government would.

jammin_2

Mr_Lahey wrote: »

A national ID card by its very definition must be supported by the government. If the UK government does not support them it is easy to see why no other countries government would.

I suppose that's a fair point.

peachyprice

jammin wrote: »

Can someone explain to me please - why exactly can National ID Cards already issued not be used as travel documents in Europe until the date of their expiry?

The UK National ID Card contains no less data than a UK passport. The application form asks for at least as much information as a British passport application, to confirm that the holder is a UK national.

I accept that the government wants to scrap the NIR. I accept that the government wishes to halt the issuance of new NICs. I just don't understand why cards already in existence are due to be deemed invalid for EEA / Swiss travel.

Because the database that holds the information stored on the card is being switched off, so to speak. It will not link to any information about you and will be less useful at ID'ing you than a Nectar card

It would cost millions to keep the database up and running for 10 years, just so very small minority of the population can use their trial ID cards.

Hope that makes it clearer why they cannot be used for travel.

jammin_2

peachyprice wrote: »

Because the database that holds the information stored on the card is being switched off, so to speak. It will not link to any information about you and will be less useful at ID'ing you than a Nectar card

It would cost millions to keep the database up and running for 10 years, just so very small minority of the population can use their trial ID cards.

Hope that makes it clearer why they cannot be used for travel.

Then how is it different from a passport?

I think Mr Lahey was right with what he said, tbh.

peachyprice

Erm, because the passport database will remain live and your ID can be checked when your passport is swiped. When you ID card is swiped there will be no data to identify you.

Yes, Mr Lahey is right, did anyone say he wasn't?

jammin_2

peachyprice wrote: »

Erm, because the passport database will remain live and your ID can be checked when your passport is swiped. When you ID card is swiped there will be no data to identify you.

EU Passports are not swiped within the EU, neither are non-UK NICs. The UKBA have no access to any ID database of any other Member State.

peachyprice wrote: »

Yes, Mr Lahey is right, did anyone say he wasn't?

No. Don't be so jumpy.

peachyprice

jammin wrote: »

EU Passports are not swiped within the EU, neither are non-UK NICs. The UKBA have no access to any ID database of any other Member State.

How would you get back into the UK with an ID card that couldn't be swiped? All passports are swiped at point of entry.

Infact all passports are swiped as you leave the UK too.

jammin_2

peachyprice wrote: »

How would you get back into the UK with an ID card that couldn't be swiped? All passports are swiped at point of entry.

Infact all passports are swiped as you leave the UK too.

I'm afraid you are mistaken on both points peachyprice.

peachyprice

I don't think I am Jammin. Everytime I leave the UK, be it by car, train or plane, my passport is swiped.

It is not swiped at all travelling between countries within mainland Europe.

jammin_2

1. The UKBA does not habitually check outbound international passengers at air or sea ports. Exceptions / pilots exist.

2. The UKBA has the facility to swipe passports to read the microchip (photograph, fingerprints if present) on biometric passports. This may be done in the case of inbound passengers, usually non-EEA nationals but can be done for all. It is not to "check ID" in the sense of accessing an ID database. Swiping the passport merely reads the microchip.

3. The UKBA has no access to any database connected to National Identity Cards issued by other EU Member States.

4. The UK has an uncontrolled land border with another EU Member State. All nationals, practically speaking, may pass freely in to and out of the UK, completely undocumented.