300,000 jobs in public sector face the axe

kabayiri

LizEstelle wrote: »

By the way, can anyone tell me what the knock on effects in the supplies and services sector will be of 300,000 public servants being sacked...?

Ideally, I'd like a Lib Dem voter to tell me...

Yes.

The outsourcing companies, like Capita, were licking their lips at the prospect of change, just check the press reporting a few weeks back.

Politically these companies provide politicians with a 'solution' ; shift jobs out to the these outsourced companies, and then let those companies squeeze the jobs down over a period of time. It's happened before.

There is no doubt that we will go through a period of change. Progress will be very choppy, not at all smooth. There will be winners and losers, there always are.

I don't say any of this with any satisfaction, by the way. It's just harsh reality.

dealsearcher

izzybusy23 wrote: »

... And I will get Income Support and CTC too.. so I won't be any worse off if I was laid off.

Are you sure? Under Labour maybe, but under this new government? I think you may find things will change. Maybe not immediately, but ...

A._Badger

kabayiri wrote: »

Yes.

The outsourcing companies, like Capita, were licking their lips at the prospect of change, just check the press reporting a few weeks back.

Ugh! It would be a bleak turn of events if an outfit like Capita benefited. I hope you are wrong (though I fear you might not be).

marklv

donaldtramp wrote: »

What planet are you living on? This job security and stability COMES WITH financial gain these days in the public sector. The average wage in the public sector is now higher than the people who pay their wages! How much longer can this continue?
It is not schadenfreude, THIS IS REALITY biting.

Bring out the axe.

I am living on planet Earth, but you are clearly not. Going purely for financial gain means taking risks - and you have to face up to them. Many who work in the public sector do not want to take such risks - they prefer lower paid work in exchange for greater security.

Don't waste my time with the old lie that the average wage in the public sector in higher - this is pure BS. Taking each occupation or profession separately this is not true.

marklv

A._Badger wrote: »

The 'where has socialism ever been tried?' argument is one of the most tired of tired old cliches.

Whenever a socialist state fails, the Left says 'Oh, no! That wasn't socialism - that was blah-bah-blah'.

The fact is that whenever people's natural wish to better the lives of themselves and their families is rigorously controlled 'for the sake of fairness and equality' a ruthless oligarchy takes control, inflicting, at best, dire poverty on everyone except themselves and, in the overwhelming majority of cases, creating a vile, murderous, police state.

One thing is communism or fascism, another is democratic socialism. Don't mix up the two.

marklv

kabayiri wrote: »

Yes.

The outsourcing companies, like Capita, were licking their lips at the prospect of change, just check the press reporting a few weeks back.

Politically these companies provide politicians with a 'solution' ; shift jobs out to the these outsourced companies, and then let those companies squeeze the jobs down over a period of time. It's happened before.

There is no doubt that we will go through a period of change. Progress will be very choppy, not at all smooth. There will be winners and losers, there always are.

I don't say any of this with any satisfaction, by the way. It's just harsh reality.

Outsourcing might save a little money initially, but in the long term it doesn't work. Besides, you still need people to assure and audit what these outsourcers are actually doing. In my experience, outsourcing is always a false economy.

Conrad

Originally Posted by LizEstelle
Pray tell me where socialism has ever been tried?

...........................................



Can you describe the form you think is workable?

In your answer maybe have this scenario in mind;

You are in a restaurant expecting a decent meal in return for your hard earned. I am the restaurant 'owner' (is ownership allowed in yourt socialism?). Whats in it for me to provide you a really good meal at 10pm at night when I'd rather be with my children?

Alan_Cross

Kohoutek wrote: »

I think you're the one being silly if 'where has socialism been tried?' is a serious question. Probably a third of all the countries of the world have had a government that identifies with a socialist ideology at some point in the twentieth century...virtually every country in Europe has tried one, Central and South America, the republics of the Soviet Union, China.

By the way Liz, what's your solution to not making public sector cuts? Bear in mind the deficit is £150bn, and total income tax receipts, for example, are £140bn.

Are you seriously claiming that the figleaf of 'identifying with' means any genuine attempt to put into practice? All of your quoted examples are barely disguised, personality-cult dictatorships.

Everybody knows that true socialism has never been implemented anywhere - and that the cases which have come closest - Scandinavia comes to mind - have been pretty good places to live while still allowing for enlightened free enterprise - I don't recall any shortages of Saabs and Volvos around while what you doubtless consider to be a supreme 'nanny state' was in force.

marklv

A._Badger wrote: »

The 'where has socialism ever been tried?' argument is one of the most tired of tired old cliches.

Whenever a socialist state fails, the Left says 'Oh, no! That wasn't socialism - that was blah-bah-blah'.

The fact is that whenever people's natural wish to better the lives of themselves and their families is rigorously controlled 'for the sake of fairness and equality' a ruthless oligarchy takes control, inflicting, at best, dire poverty on everyone except themselves and, in the overwhelming majority of cases, creating a vile, murderous, police state.

And you are saying that there is no ruthless oligarchy in a capitalist society? Utter tripe! In a capitalist society those with the most money call the shots. This talk about 'bettering yourself' is an illusion, fostered by the rich elite, to give the impression that most people can become rich. Well, I have news for you pal: IT CAN'T HAPPEN! Getting rich is not easy, it's difficult and infact impossible for most people. For every self-made millionaire there are 100,000 who have tried and failed.

thescouselander

donaldtramp wrote: »

500 people at my work recently got the sack. They got no warning and no 6 month wage pay off that the public sector are "entitled" to in many cases. They haven't been in receipt of taxpayer money for their pensions whilst in employment. They didn't threaten to go on strike and hold their employers and the public to ransom.
They just got on and went to look for other jobs.

Private sector employees are people too. Just a bit less "equal" than the public sector.

It seems like your employer is pretty poor then. I know of loads of people in the private sector who have quite favorable redundancy terms. Rather than bring everyone down to a low common denominator perhaps we need stronger regulation so companies have to take better care of their workforce.