Do I have to refund?

custardy

Markb06 wrote: »

£84.99 and £2.99 postage

deary me,you left yourself wide open there
you had no insurance on that phone if it went missing or the buyer denied receipt
you need special delivery for that if you are using RM

custardy

DVardysShadow wrote: »

These are the wrong T&C's. Irrelevant to the discussion of the Seller's responsibilities.

These are the T&C's between Amazon and Buyer. They are binding on Amazon and on Buyer, but not necessarily binding on the seller.

To begin to make your point, you need the T&C's between Seller and Amazon. And you also need to establish the role of Amazon in the dealings between Buyer and Seller. Are they Seller's Agent, or Back to Back Buyer and Seller? Answer that question and we may be able to unpick this a bit more.

you would want these then

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?ie=UTF8&nodeId=3216781#sellers

Markb06

Well regardless the buyer got it as they have confirmed delivery

soolin

Markb06 wrote: »

It was posted as standard delivery. Which is 3-5 days. Yes I admit it was one day late but I did say sorry about this to the buyer

Good grief.

For future reference items over £41 must go special delivery for you as a seller to be covered against loss in the psot. You took an awful risk using standard untracked mail here, if the item have failed to arrive then buyer would have got an immediate refund and you'd have lost the phone as well.

I know both Amazon and ebay give this impression that they are easy to use and anyone can easily sell there, but in reality you need to understand a few basic principles before you trust anything of yours on sites like that. Read up on RM protection for a start, and then it wouldn't hurt to read up on the T and Cs you greed to when you placed your item to sell on Amazon.

toffe

I think this thread has spun round in so many circles now it's difficult to read without feeling dizzy.

We seem to have gone off into expressions of opinions rather exploration of the facts.

All i got from the o.p's first post was a question of "do i have to refund" not "in your opinion should i refund"

the two questions would obviously draw wildely different views, which is what we are seeing here now.

Based on the question of "do i have to" i'd say the law says no you don't, so what about the agreement between amazon and the seller that says the seller will refund if amazon tell them to?

I think thats flawed as it removes the legal right of the seller. Such contractual terms are not allowed under our unfair contract terms legislation so the op should be able to ignore this contract term as it should be unenforceable.

The consequence though will be loss of account with amazon, which for those claiming the op should not sell on amazon if he is not prepared to abide by their terms, well, he is making that choice not to sell on amazon isn't he,so that solves that problem.

Markb06

I have found that alot on here. Ask for advice and I get is the stuff posted in here.

Anyway thanks to the advice I did get. The seller has not emailed back since his last email telling me he wants to return it.

Have to see what happens now

4743hudsonj

toffe wrote: »

I think this thread has spun round in so many circles now it's difficult to read without feeling dizzy.

We seem to have gone off into expressions of opinions rather exploration of the facts.

All i got from the o.p's first post was a question of "do i have to refund" not "in your opinion should i refund"

the two questions would obviously draw wildely different views, which is what we are seeing here now.

Based on the question of "do i have to" i'd say the law says no you don't, so what about the agreement between amazon and the seller that says the seller will refund if amazon tell them to?

I think thats flawed as it removes the legal right of the seller. Such contractual terms are not allowed under our unfair contract terms legislation so the op should be able to ignore this contract term as it should be unenforceable.

The consequence though will be loss of account with amazon, which for those claiming the op should not sell on amazon if he is not prepared to abide by their terms, well, he is making that choice not to sell on amazon isn't he,so that solves that problem.

Again.... i am not aware of any 'right' of sellers in law that Amazon is denying, please point me to it? Ive asked this 3 times now, each time you havnt backed up your claim that amazon have unfair contractual terms.

You cant deny something that doesnt exist.

Fair enough if you can show me the law that states sellers have the right to not provide refunds.

As before im not actually discussing ether the OP has to refund or not, just your seemingly unjustified accusation the amazon is breaking the law. please clarify.

phlogeston

4743hudsonj wrote: »

Again.... i am not aware of any 'right' of sellers in law that Amazon is denying, please point me to it?

Agree totally with 4743hudsonj, toffe has been banging about 'laws' which certainly did not exist when I did my law degree.

The law allows individuals to contract on any terms they wish (businesses are bound by an additional raft of legislation). By selling on amazon, the OP has agreed that the amazon rules form part of the terms of the contract between himself and the buyer.

If a term of the contract is that refunds are allowed up to 7 days after delivery then those terms are binding.

DVardysShadow

phlogeston wrote: »

If a term of the contract is that refunds are allowed up to 7 days after delivery then those terms are binding.

As we don't know whether Amazon are Seller's Agent or back to back buyer and seller, we don't know whether we are dealing with 1 tripartite agreement, or 2 or 3 bipartite agreements.

The terms of Amazon's Seller's agreement may be binding, but because we do not know what contracts we are dealing with, we still cannot say how binding they are. If Amazon is not back to back Buyer and Seller, but Agent, it may well be that they are only binding to the extent that Amazon can cancel the seller but cannot enforce anything between the end seller and end buyer.

custardy

DVardysShadow wrote: »

As we don't know whether Amazon are Seller's Agent or back to back buyer and seller, we don't know whether we are dealing with 1 tripartite agreement, or 2 or 3 bipartite agreements.

The terms of Amazon's Seller's agreement may be binding, but because we do not know what contracts we are dealing with, we still cannot say how binding they are. If Amazon is not back to back Buyer and Seller, but Agent, it may well be that they are only binding to the extent that Amazon can cancel the seller but cannot enforce anything between the end seller and end buyer.

didnt you read the link i provided?
it covers both buyer and seller terms