Do I have to refund?

DVardysShadow

custardy wrote: »

the original question is do i have to refund?
the answer is no,but if the buyer puts a claim into amazon then yes
hows that?

Nice try. Like the simplicity.

If Amazon accept the claim, then it puts them in the position of being back to back seller and buyer. As the seller is private, he is possibly not obliged to accept a claim from Amazon. On the other hand, if Amazon are Seller's agent, and they give the refund on their own authority, then they carry the can and the phone belongs to them.

The original question cannot be answered because we do not know for sure what Amazon's role is in the sale.

custardy

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Nice try. Like the simplicity.

If Amazon accept the claim, then it puts them in the position of being back to back seller and buyer. As the seller is private, he is possibly not obliged to accept a claim from Amazon. On the other hand, if Amazon are Seller's agent, and they give the refund on their own authority, then they carry the can and the phone belongs to them.

The original question cannot be answered because we do not know for sure what Amazon's role is in the sale.

are you basing this on Amazons T&C's or your own?
nobody is forced to sell on Amazon,if they choose to then they need to be aware of the T&C's and what liabilitys fall on them and how to protect themselves

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=3149571&#what

You can file an Amazon.co.uk A-to-z Guarantee claim if you purchased physical goods from a seller or merchant selling on the Amazon.co.uk website (including the Amazon.co.uk Marketplace platform). See "Exclusions from coverage" below for a list of items that are not covered by the A-to-z Guarantee.

One of the three conditions below must also apply:
You made payment to the seller through the Amazon.co.uk website, but the seller failed to deliver the item by 3 calendar days past the maximum estimated delivery date for an order or 30 days from the order date, whichever is sooner; or
You received the item, but the item was defective, damaged, or not the item depicted in the seller's description; or
You have returned the item to the seller per an agreement between the buyer and seller and the seller has not provided the agreed refund to the buyer after receiving the item.

You must first contact the seller through Your Account before filing a claim. From the order details, click "Problem with this order?" and "Contact your Seller." Please allow three business days to give your seller a chance to address the issue. You can submit a Guarantee claim if the seller does not respond or if the issue is not addressed to your satisfaction.

so to the OP,what were the 'specified limits' of your delivery
seperate issue but what was the value of the phone and what postage method did you use?

Zazen999

wealdroam wrote: »

I am not suggesting that the buyer, or anyone else, should do all the chasing.

The buyer decided he didn't want the goods.

I believe the buyer should have notified the seller as soon as that decision was made.

Ok, the seller also made mistakes.

Perhaps he decided that he didn't want the goods once the 5 working day deadline expired?

Markb06

custardy wrote: »

perhaps since the buyer heard nothing from the seller for 5 days(did they?) they thought the same?

I had contacted the seller. Twice. Once to say I posted and twice to apologise for posting late. I never once got a reply stating it would be to late or that he was getting another phone

custardy

Markb06 wrote: »

I had contacted the seller. Twice. Once to say I posted and twice to apologise for posting late. I never once got a reply stating it would be to late or that he was getting another phone

well unfortunately there are buyers like this out there,as a seller you need to be covered for this
ive sold about 40 items over the last few weeks
the money is sitting untouched for now
just incase i get just such a scenario

Markb06

custardy wrote: »

are you basing this on Amazons T&C's or your own?
nobody is forced to sell on Amazon,if they choose to then they need to be aware of the T&C's and what liabilitys fall on them and how to protect themselves

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=3149571&#what



so to the OP,what were the 'specified limits' of your delivery
seperate issue but what was the value of the phone and what postage method did you use?

It was posted as standard delivery. Which is 3-5 days. Yes I admit it was one day late but I did say sorry about this to the buyer

custardy

Markb06 wrote: »

It was posted as standard delivery. Which is 3-5 days. Yes I admit it was one day late but I did say sorry about this to the buyer

how much was it worth though?

Markb06

custardy wrote: »

how much was it worth though?

£84.99 and £2.99 postage

DVardysShadow

custardy wrote: »

are you basing this on Amazons T&C's or your own?
nobody is forced to sell on Amazon,if they choose to then they need to be aware of the T&C's and what liabilitys fall on them and how to protect themselves

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=3149571&#what

These are the wrong T&C's. Irrelevant to the discussion of the Seller's responsibilities.

These are the T&C's between Amazon and Buyer. They are binding on Amazon and on Buyer, but not necessarily binding on the seller.

To begin to make your point, you need the T&C's between Seller and Amazon. And you also need to establish the role of Amazon in the dealings between Buyer and Seller. Are they Seller's Agent, or Back to Back Buyer and Seller? Answer that question and we may be able to unpick this a bit more.

DVardysShadow

toffe wrote: »

To be honest i'm not to sure what you mean by "it's not really a right to not have obligations".

If you mean it is not a "right" not to have the obligation to refund then i'd have to argue, yes, that is a private sellers legal right.

A private seller has the right to consider all sales final, this right is often removed under the terms of Amazon and Paypal contracts, therefore private sellers legal rights are being removed.

I belive that this is a contractual prohibition.

Purely from a consumer protection angle i'd therefore have to ask the question, would/should Amazon be able to take any action beyond removing the private sellers right to use their services in terms of forcing the private seller to hand over any money.

I don't think they could if this possible contractual prohibition was argued, i also think it unlikely amazon would go beyond basic debt collection efforts, i.e. letters and phone calls.

This is a fairly central issue here. The contract is attempting to override rights established in law. [Certainly familiar territory on the housing board, where a tenants right to quiet enjoyment of a property permits him to refuse entry to viewers looking to rent the tenancy, despite contracts saying that he must accept viewers after he has given notice].