Public services - wave of redundancies?

jordan_ash

purple12 wrote: »

So it is all very well saying 'I don't need public services' but we can judge a culture and society on its treatment of her least fortunate citizens - and quite frankly, it doesn't augur well for this government.

It has sometimes been said that those who do the judging of a socities culture are usually being paid to do so by people who would much rather the judges did it with their own money instead or relying on other peoples'.

jem16

dmbaxt wrote: »

it's laughable - the papers harp on about golden pensions - yes I work for local government, but I don't pay into the pension cause it ain't all the papers say it is.

So what exactly is it then?

It's not a golden pension but it's still one of the best pensions around.

SarEl

jem16 wrote: »

So what exactly is it then?

It's not a golden pension but it's still one of the best pensions around.

And the point is? There's little use to be gained from begrudging some other poor soul the benefits of a reasonable pension simply because other employers don't provide one. Local government workers contribute to their own pension, so whilst employers contributions are made (as they are in a whole range of pension funds including many in the private sector), it isn't some free gift.

As I have suggested here and elsewhere, I see little benefit to anyone except the rich and the government (albeit they are oftenthe same thing) in one set of workers bemoaning and begrudging another set of workers what they have. In the great scheme of things, what they all have appears to be mortgages, bills, debts, and the constant worry of having a job tomorrow.

Public sector workers are paid from the public purse, yes. So are private sector workers - only in this case their wages literally come out of purses and wallets, usually of other workers. Who do people think buy the goods and services they produce - fairies??? And when all the "undeserving workers" who don't deserve a job, in some people's opinion are out of work, who exactly do they think will buy the things they produce then? To say nothing of the many thousands of private businesses whose supply chain relies heavily on purchasing by the public sector, including construction companies.

If people want to find fault, they will always do so. But where is it getting anyone? Are there more jobs? Higher wages? Better lifestyles? When we have no people left who can afford to "consume" what will there be to "produce"?

jem16

SarEl wrote: »

And the point is?

My point was why is he/she not in the pension scheme. It's a great scheme and by not being in it he/she is throwing away part of their salary. The only person losing out is the person not taking advantage of the scheme.

There's little use to be gained from begrudging some other poor soul the benefits of a reasonable pension simply because other employers don't provide one. Local government workers contribute to their own pension, so whilst employers contributions are made (as they are in a whole range of pension funds including many in the private sector), it isn't some free gift.

I know - I'm a local authority teacher.

dmbaxt

jem16 wrote: »

My point was why is he/she not in the pension scheme. It's a great scheme and by not being in it he/she is throwing away part of their salary. The only person losing out is the person not taking advantage of the scheme.



I decided not to join the scheme after getting advice from my financial advisor. (I didn't just think I ain't payin £74 a month of my wages into a pension as some I know have!!).

After looking over the paperwork they said the pension I am already paying into (and have been since I left school) would provide as much, if not more than the Local Authority pension so why stop paying into the one I already have?

Plus - a point he made that is more prudent than ever now - was that the pension I pay into at the moment will still be the same if I get made redundant or leave the LA. Yes it's a great pension while I still have a job there. If I leave it gets frozen or I have to transfer it to another pension fund that's maybe not so great.

Sorry if my post sounds a little tetchy - my aunt passed away yesterday after a long battle with cancer so not at my best at the moment

jem16

dmbaxt wrote: »

I decided not to join the scheme after getting advice from my financial advisor. (I didn't just think I ain't payin £74 a month of my wages into a pension as some I know have!!).

Sounds good so far. Not that it would be £74 that you actually paid. After tax relief it would be £59.20 and a little less because of NI saving.

After looking over the paperwork they said the pension I am already paying into (and have been since I left school) would provide as much, if not more than the Local Authority pension so why stop paying into the one I already have?

There is no way that a money purchase scheme with you paying in £59.20pm would give the same as your final salary LGPS will give. If you had stopped paying into that one and left it to grow you would have 2 pensions come retirement. Plus your money purchase scheme gives you all thr risk and the LGPS no risk at all to you. Why do you think there was the pension misselling scandal of the late 80s/90s when people were being advised to ditch their final salary schemes for personal pensions?

Then there is the life assurance and spouse/dependants pension.

Plus - a point he made that is more prudent than ever now - was that the pension I pay into at the moment will still be the same if I get made redundant or leave the LA. Yes it's a great pension while I still have a job there. If I leave it gets frozen or I have to transfer it to another pension fund that's maybe not so great.

Normal advice for a final salary pension is to leave it where it is as nothing else will come close to it. Pension will increase each year in line with inflation whilst it's frozen.

I hope this is a sufficient explanation of why I am "throwing away part of my salary".;)

Not really I'm afraid.

Your employer is paying around 15% of your salary into your pension. There is no way you can make that up with any personal pension.

Perhaps you should ask if you've made the correct choice on the pension board.

dmbaxt

sorry maybe I should have asked u before I made any decision.

I have been paying into my current pension for the last 18 years u suggest I stop paying this one and let it grow - maybe I should have as you rightly say the LA pension is a very good one. but in the current climate I am glad I took the advice given at the time. I have only been with LA for 3 years and from the information we have been given this week I will be very lucky to make it to 4 years so I would have frozen a scheme where I pay more to go into one where I pay less for 3 - 4 years to have to freeze that one and go back into the other scheme (hope this makes sense)

We could debate all night but it wouldn't acheive anything I don't pay into the scheme and that's that - you may be correct and in one way I hope you are and I still have a job in the LA in 5, 10, 15 years time, but unfortunatley, I do not think I will have.

Anyhow we have gone very off topic here - this thread isn't about whether I made the correct decision or not with regards to my pension it's about the redundancies we are all facing at the moment and whether we'll still be employed in the Public Service by this time next year - here's hoping!!

CapJ

dmbaxt wrote: »

sorry maybe I should have asked u before I made any decision.

I have been paying into my current pension for the last 18 years u suggest I stop paying this one and let it grow - maybe I should have as you rightly say the LA pension is a very good one. but in the current climate I am glad I took the advice given at the time. I have only been with LA for 3 years and from the information we have been given this week I will be very lucky to make it to 4 years so I would have frozen a scheme where I pay more to go into one where I pay less for 3 - 4 years to have to freeze that one and go back into the other scheme (hope this makes sense)

We could debate all night but it wouldn't acheive anything I don't pay into the scheme and that's that - you may be correct and in one way I hope you are and I still have a job in the LA in 5, 10, 15 years time, but unfortunatley, I do not think I will have.

Anyhow we have gone very off topic here - this thread isn't about whether I made the correct decision or not with regards to my pension it's about the redundancies we are all facing at the moment and whether we'll still be employed in the Public Service by this time next year - here's hoping!!

How much commission does your financial advisor earn from your continued contributions to your existing personal pension?

jem16

dmbaxt wrote: »

Sorry if my post sounds a little tetchy - my aunt passed away yesterday after a long battle with cancer so not at my best at the moment

Sorry to hear that - my condolences.

dmbaxt wrote: »

sorry maybe I should have asked u before I made any decision.

Perhaps.

so I would have frozen a scheme where I pay more to go into one where I pay less for 3 - 4 years to have to freeze that one and go back into the other scheme (hope this makes sense)

It does make sense and would almost certainly have been better for you.

it's about the redundancies we are all facing at the moment and whether we'll still be employed in the Public Service by this time next year - here's hoping!!

I wish you well.

My situation is different being only 6 years from retirement. It would probably cost the local authority more to get rid of me than keep me but I can hope. They can employ 1.5 new teachers for the price of me just about so you never know.

CapJ wrote: »

How much commission does your financial advisor earn from your continued contributions to your existing personal pension?

A very good question.

dmbaxt

it was a different financial advisor than the one I originally sought advice from about my original pension. both independant financial advisors.

why all of a sudden has this thread become about my pension choices and that I'm being berated because of that choice?