Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus) Discussion

Meeper

I wholeheartedly agree with much of Quentin's last post, and apologise. The Sainsbury's cashback element is only 3%, not 5% as stated on the website section I linked.

Perfectly reasonable explanation incoming - it was 5% until quite recently, at which point it was reduced to 3%, the website unfortunately hasn't been updated to take this fact into account, which just goes to show how little the website is used by anyone other than those trying to cause trouble. It should be updated though, and I will report the matter.

The reducing of the Sainsbury's Cashback to 3% was due to it no longer being the only supermarket in the Cashback scheme as ASDA joined the scheme on the 1st January. Worth noting however that the cashback at ASDA does not apply to fuel, which is an important consideration.

Apart from the change from 5% to 3% (which isn't spin or lies, it's just an oversight) everything stated in my previous posts is prefectly correct and factual.

Would you care to assist the poster with his requirements as MillicentByStander has asked you to, or are you only interested in taking jabs at UWDC without actually helping anyone with their actual queries?

Quentin

Meeper wrote: »

Perfectly reasonable explanation incoming - it was 5% until quite recently, at which point it was reduced to 3%, the website unfortunately hasn't been updated to take this fact into account, which just goes to show how little the website is used by anyone other than those trying to cause trouble.

You seem to have forgotten it was actually you (ie Meeper, from the uw) who directed us to the page in question (the one with spin and lies!) by supplying a link so that we could all see how the massive savings claimed were worked out (and they were "perfectly" reasonable!

Meeper wrote:

https://www.utilitywarehouse.co.uk/home/Savings/how.taf will show you how that savings calculation was worked out and is prefectly reasonable.

Yet mysteriously now try to suggest it came to our attention thanks to someone "trying to cause trouble"!

Meeper

There you go again, confusing the issue. That's not how it happened at all. You initially pointed out the savings calculator part of the website, I then linked the reasoning for the figures and did not pick up on the error in the Cashback amount, a point which I have conceded and agreed with.

It's not mysterious, Quentin, because it *did* come to our attention thanks to someone trying to cause trouble. You pointed it out in the first place, I was merely explaining how the figures come to be because you had represented the figures as nonsense and pie-in-the-sky. I linked the subsequent page which explained the workings.

Can you say "selective quotation"?

Quentin

Meeper wrote: »

I wholeheartedly agree with much of Quentin's last post, and apologise. The Sainsbury's cashback element is only 3%, not 5% as stated on the website section I linked.

Perfectly reasonable explanation incoming - it was 5% until quite recently, at which point it was reduced to 3%, the website unfortunately hasn't been updated to take this fact into account, though, and I will report the matter.........

The reducing of the Sainsbury's Cashback to 3% was due to it no longer being the only supermarket in the Cashback scheme as ASDA joined the scheme on the 1st January. Worth noting however that the cashback at ASDA does not apply to fuel, which is an important consideration.....

More uw spin to point out:

The uw were happy to use this forum to announce the change as long as 3 months ago, yet now tell us they only knew about the change "quite recently", and we are asked to accept they haven't got round to correcting that important part on their website which explains the massive savings available! Wouldn't wash with the ASA were they to take an interest!

And in more spin we are now told that the "cashback" had to be reduced because another supermarket spoilt Sainsbury's "exclusivity" in the scheme.

Yet competitor discount schemes have always included both supermarkets - and at higher discounts!

Meeper

Bad luck - you're not doing very well with your points today.

a) The change may have been announced 3 months ago but it only came into affect in 1st January, which is not 3 months ago.
b) It's not an important part of the website, as I have already pointed out many times.
c) Please feel free to re-run the calculation reducing the figure in the Cashback box by 40%. How much difference does that make to your saving? I'm sure it is still substantial, and the rest of the justification on the page that I linked stands.
d) Please confirm why the ASA would ignore our blatent "spin" and dishonesty if it were the case? I assume you have reported our disgraceful tactics to them.....?
e) The cashback was reduced when ASDA joined the scheme. Competitor disounts may have always included both supermarkets, but they never have with UWDC Cashback Card before, which is what we are talking about. You never specify which other discount schemes are better than the UWDC one, so your point is moot.

Put your money where your mouth is and be specific and factual with your responses please instead of clouding the issue with your annoying and tiresome "stuck-record" rhetoric.

MillicentBystander

Meeper wrote: »

Bad luck - you're not doing very well with your points today.

a) The change may have been announced 3 months ago but it only came into affect in 1st January, which is not 3 months ago.
b) It's not an important part of the website, as I have already pointed out many times.
c) Please feel free to re-run the calculation reducing the figure in the Cashback box by 40%. How much difference does that make to your saving? I'm sure it is still substantial, and the rest of the justification on the page that I linked stands.
d) Please confirm why the ASA would ignore our blatent "spin" and dishonesty if it were the case? I assume you have reported our disgraceful tactics to them.....?
e) The cashback was reduced when ASDA joined the scheme. Competitor disounts may have always included both supermarkets, but they never have with UWDC Cashback Card before, which is what we are talking about. You never specify which other discount schemes are better than the UWDC one, so your point is moot.

Put your money where your mouth is and be specific and factual with your responses please instead of clouding the issue with your annoying and tiresome "stuck-record" rhetoric.

I think he would rather die first than do such a thing. It's just all the same piffle/waffle with Quentin, no substance/facts/firm recommendations but at least he doesn't seem to be boring himself like he is others on here. As one of the ads in a US presidential campaign famously asked:

'Where's the beef?'

Quentin

Meeper wrote: »

... it *did* come to our attention thanks to someone trying to cause trouble. You pointed it out in the first place......

By pointing out your savings calculator's astonishing claims of savings to be made you label me "someone trying to cause trouble"???

When we have heard the reps being trained to use this saving calculator at every call to give evidence of the savings to be made, by inputting the gullible's post code and printing off the results to take with them on the sales call???

And when we have heard the reps being trained to overcome the gullible's objection to paying the club fee on top of their bill by showing this print out again and saying "look how much you going to save - why worry about the club fee"?

And despite me telling you I have never had any connection in any way with uw you keep repeating this about me:

Meeper wrote:

presumably an ex-customer or failed distributor

(As well as your many previous unneccessary personal jibes aimed at me)

And you post that I post here as a trouble maker?

When in fact uw's misleading claims/lies/spin/despicable training methods have been my main thrust.

Meeper

See, you condemn me for making personal jibes at you, yet any time I speak you accuse me of "spin" and "lies". Personal jibes, much? Care to comment? Doubt it.

Never once in the time I have been involved with UW has anyone ever suggested to me during any training sessions that I should use the savings calculator on the public website, print off the information and use it with a client. Never. Besides that, did you do as I asked and simply reduce the Cashback element of the savings by 40%? Did it still result in a saving on the screen? Of course it did. But I note that you haven't picked any holes in any of the other justifications, just the 5% to 3% cashback issue which we have now resolved. Do we therefore suppose that you cannot find any fault with the other elements of the working?

There is another calculator on the Distributor site which conforms entirely to OFGEM regulations regarding how to calculate approximate quotes when a customer does not know their specific usage. This may well be used in certain situations, but it is absolutely used alongside a compliance statement which the distributor is bound to read if they use the estimated figures which explains that they are......estimated figures!

You have not given responses to any of my points a), b), c), d) or e) above in any detail.

Why am I not surprised.

You are, in fact, being a great help Quentin. I have directed one of my new distributors here recently to show some of the nonsense he will come up against and used it as a good example of how I give factual and detailed responses and other people and their naysayer friends will just try to make blanket statements and sensationalise things to their advantage.

All you are doing by refusing to be specific and factual is enhancing all of the posts on here which give facts and information in support of UW. Your posts look petty and foolish as you refuse to put anything specific at all, despite numerous requests. Thanks for helping me to grow my business!

Meeper
--UW Distributor

Quentin

Meeper wrote: »

a) The change may have been announced 3 months ago but it only came into affect in 1st January, which is not 3 months ago.
b) It's not an important part of the website, as I have already pointed out many times.
c) Please feel free to re-run the calculation reducing the figure in the Cashback box by 40%. How much difference does that make to your saving? I'm sure it is still substantial, and the rest of the justification on the page that I linked stands.
d) Please confirm why the ASA would ignore our blatent "spin" and dishonesty if it were the case? I assume you have reported our disgraceful tactics to them.....?
e) The cashback was reduced when ASDA joined the scheme. Competitor disounts may have always included both supermarkets, but they never have with UWDC Cashback Card before, which is what we are talking about. You never specify which other discount schemes are better than the UWDC one, so your point is moot.

UW knew about the forthcoming change and announced it here in November.

That was when they should have changed their savings calculator. Anyone being directed to it (or shown a print out by a rep) was being mislead (deliberately). They would never have got the advantage of the 5% discount on petrol, nor the 5% on shopping at Sainsbury's as their switches of energy could not have been completed before the rates went down.

In any case they went down on 1/1/11 - so 6 weeks ago!!

The uw savings quoted include "free" calls to 0845 numbers - but just another lie. Although BT's inclusive call packages include 0845 numbers, uw's don't!

It is dishonest to use price comparisons when you don't compare like with like (eg as in the energy prices being compared against payments by cheque when uw charge 10% more for payments by cheque).

We can all see that, but it seems inbuilt into the uw rep not to, and just follow the company line and avoid the detail!

Meeper

I have already conceded that the savings calculator needs to be updated. The justification about the 0845 numbers is exactly the same, as we did include 0845 numbers until recently but this facility was recently withdrawn. Another update of the website required, absolutely. I guess that makes your savings a lot less now when you take that into account on the calculator. Perpahs the savings figure is only £900 now instead of £1000? OMG!

You have now done:

a) Partial response.
b) No response.
c) Partial response.
d) No response.
e) No response.

I suppose we're getting somewhere. Will you answer all questions with the next 100 posts, perhaps?