Kleeneeze or Betterware?

spend2save

Spend2save wrote:

.
.One other point with Betterware is that for co-ordinators the contract was changed some time ago to making it clear that the co-ordinator was buying the product from the company and then selling on to the agents. Unfortunately for any co-ordinator with a turnover above the level where VAT registration is mandatory, there is a liability of 20% of profit, which Betterware has never been clear about. I understand that HMRC are now investigating this and will be pursuing back taxes over the past 10 years.

Honest_John_666 wrote: »

Just to follow up........... & still 150%TBC..........direct from a VAT contact I have..............

Betterware is liable for all VAT payments on all good supplied

20% is the distributor commision level paid

Coordiantor level is 11.2% of gross sales = 14% net

Coordinator doing books is 31.2%.........no cash outlay.......safe guarded area..........bonuses...........& record sales last week
:cool:


For the Coordinator to become VAT registered they would have to earn profit of £73K. I would hazard a guess then they would need to earn well over £2K per week IMO :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I think I'm right so I've NO IDEA spend2save where you've heard that. You been working for Kleeneze??? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Regards
John

I've only just seen this reply and 2 years on it really needs correcting.

Yes, Betterware are liable for the VAT on sales TO co-ordinators just as anyone in any supply chain is, who has a turnover of currently over £79k.

Co-ordinators are liable for the VAT on the profit of any sales, IF their own turnover, NOT PROFIT, is over £79k in the current tax year. This used to cover almost all co-ordinators, though i'm not sure how many have area sales of over £2500 per week now. The upshot of this is that any co-ordinator with turnover of over £79k should be VAT registered and it is an offence to not be.

And no, I don't and would never work for Kleeneze. As my original post made clear Betterware were the better option back then due to the no-cost setup.

Honest_John_666

spend2save wrote: »

I've only just seen this reply and 2 years on it really needs correcting.

Yes, Betterware are liable for the VAT on sales TO co-ordinators just as anyone in any supply chain is, who has a turnover of currently over £79k.

Co-ordinators are liable for the VAT on the profit of any sales, IF their own turnover, NOT PROFIT, is over £79k in the current tax year. This used to cover almost all co-ordinators, though i'm not sure how many have area sales of over £2500 per week now. The upshot of this is that any co-ordinator with turnover of over £79k should be VAT registered and it is an offence to not be.

And no, I don't and would never work for Kleeneze. As my original post made clear Betterware were the better option back then due to the no-cost setup.

Not a VAT expert but know someone very well if you wanted this clarified

Betterware includes the VAT on every sales to its Coordinators.

Coordinators PROFIT.......is 11.2% of gross sales

If Betterware pays VAT on products why would a Coordinator have to pay VAT once they have sold the goods onto the agent level

AGAIN not an expert BUT your are wrong :cool:

geordie_joe

Honest_John_666 wrote: »

If Betterware pays VAT on products why would a Coordinator have to pay VAT once they have sold the goods onto the agent level

I am not an expert either, but I did do a VAT course a few years ago.

FWICR, it is VALUE ADDED TAX, so the co-ordinator would be responsible for vat on the value they add to the product.

I think it goes like this

Betterware sell a product to the co-ordinator for £1 + vat = £1.20

The co-ordinator sells it for £2 + vat = £2.40

Now the vat man wants 40p in vat. Betterware pay 20p vat, because that's what they collected.

The co-ordinator also pays 20p vat, even though he collected 40p in vat. The reason is that when he bought the product he paid Betterware 20p in vat, which Betterware paid to the vat man, so now he only needs to pay 20p and the vat man will have his 40p in vat. The co-ordinator will now have the 20p he paid for vat to betterware back, meaning the next person in the line has paid all the vat.

This is the way vat works, the last person in the chain, the end consumer, pays all the vat.

In short, the co-ordinator pays vat on the difference between what he paid for it and what he sold it for.

The same would apply to the agent, who would sell it to the end consumer, who would end up paying all the vat.

Assuming the co-ordinator and agent were liable for vat.

If the agent wasn't liable for vat then he would just say "I bought it for £2.40, I want £1 profit, so I will sell it for £3.40".

Of course, I am assuming that when you sell Betterware you actually buy it from the person above you then selling it on, and not just selling it on behalf of Betterware.

Honest_John_666

geordie_joe wrote: »

I am not an expert either, but I did do a VAT course a few years ago.

FWICR, it is VALUE ADDED TAX, so the co-ordinator would be responsible for vat on the value they add to the product.

I think it goes like this

Betterware sell a product to the co-ordinator for £1 + vat = £1.20

The co-ordinator sells it for £2 + vat = £2.40

Now the vat man wants 40p in vat. Betterware pay 20p vat, because that's what they collected.

The co-ordinator also pays 20p vat, even though he collected 40p in vat. The reason is that when he bought the product he paid Betterware 20p in vat, which Betterware paid to the vat man, so now he only needs to pay 20p and the vat man will have his 40p in vat. The co-ordinator will now have the 20p he paid for vat to betterware back, meaning the next person in the line has paid all the vat.

This is the way vat works, the last person in the chain, the end consumer, pays all the vat.

In short, the co-ordinator pays vat on the difference between what he paid for it and what he sold it for.

The same would apply to the agent, who would sell it to the end consumer, who would end up paying all the vat.

Assuming the co-ordinator and agent were liable for vat.

If the agent wasn't liable for vat then he would just say "I bought it for £2.40, I want £1 profit, so I will sell it for £3.40".

Of course, I am assuming that when you sell Betterware you actually buy it from the person above you then selling it on, and not just selling it on behalf of Betterware.

Hi Geordie Joe

Very quiet on this thread for a long time now & no KLZ multi millionaires have appeared for a long time. :rotfl:

Not sure about the VAT side but pretty sure I'm correct that no Area Managers are liable for VAT. I think I wrote ages ago that they would have to be clearing over £1500 per week to be liable for VAT

Again, pretty sure & my contact @ Betterware is normally very spot on with teh info he shares with me

Regards
John...........& now to answer the above messages

wongawonga

So despite all the hype Kleeneze Sales are still in decline.


http://findel.co.uk/wp-content/files/Post-close-trading-statement-final.pdf

No point in joining a business where profits have been on downward spiral for some time,and its sad to hear they are finding it hard to recruit more people so they can go on those nice incentives.

wongawonga

Yeah imagine the situation Betterware Agent X gets £700 orders spread over say 3 weeks. Do you think they really keep the customer waiting that long before they get the delivery,and before they pay agent. Makes no commercial sense whatsover.

wongawonga

The Betterware Agents Help Line was most helpful they confirmed that.

An agent is not required pay for any orders full stop. He/She takes the goods round collects the money for the goods sold ,gives it to the co-ordinator who pays them their cut.

That agents are paid weekly based on the money they have collected whatever the amount.

Some people must be making up their own rules.

andi2005

andye32 wrote: »

Reply to statement above

If you wanna just deliver catalogues and earn from the retail join betterware. If you want to build up to massive royalty incomes join Kleeneze. I joined Kleeneze for the opportunity not to deliver catalogues. Of course i do deliver catalogues and have a customer base but i concentrate on the team building side to build my income.


My experience with Kleeneze below

Anyone who tells you it doesnt work knows nothing. Kleeneze works if you are willing to put the effort in. The moto goes "Kleeneze works, its people that dont". To start your own business you need thousands of ££££'s, to start Kleeneze you need £139 and theres no risk. There is a very high quit rate cus people want easy money, but theres no such thing. All millionaire business people work very hard to get there. Its the same with Kleeneze.

If someone tells you they tried it and it didnt work, then they were not willing to go the extra mile to succeed with their business. They didnt put enough effort in. Its the hard work you do now that will reward you in the future with Kleeneze.

Hope this helps.

If you need to know more contact me.

Both Kleeneze and Betterware work.......as previously stated, both have their downfalls....

I have been working for betterware for 6 years, and i deliver around 450 catalogues per week, and earn between 180 and 250 per week.

In my experience, even when regular customers don't order anything, i still find my earnings are the same, as i am always getting new customers.

There are some differences between the companies........both other a guarantee on products, betterwares guarantee is for 12months on all products, where kleeneze offer a gaurantee on some products, and you need to return items in original packaging with kleeneze.

also, betterware pays a bonus once a year.......last year i had £1000.....dont know what kleeneze do.

Honest_John_666

wongawonga wrote: »

The Betterware Agents Help Line was most helpful they confirmed that.

An agent is not required pay for any orders full stop. He/She takes the goods round collects the money for the goods sold ,gives it to the co-ordinator who pays them their cut.

That agents are paid weekly based on the money they have collected whatever the amount.

Some people must be making up their own rules.

Yeah righto........ namley one........ some people who carry light sabres must really be licenced :rotfl:

Honest_John_666

andi2005 wrote: »

Both Kleeneze and Betterware work.......as previously stated, both have their downfalls....

I have been working for betterware for 6 years, and i deliver around 450 catalogues per week, and earn between 180 and 250 per week.

In my experience, even when regular customers don't order anything, i still find my earnings are the same, as i am always getting new customers.

There are some differences between the companies........both other a guarantee on products, betterwares guarantee is for 12months on all products, where kleeneze offer a gaurantee on some products, and you need to return items in original packaging with kleeneze.

also, betterware pays a bonus once a year.......last year i had £1000.....dont know what kleeneze do.

Why did you leave KLZ Andi?

This to point out on returns Andi is Betterware have a NO QUIBBLE 12 months gaurantee & it doesn't matter which agent is covering that area someone will also refund an unhappy customer

As KLZ dont have area control most KLZ reps will not refund, its a fact

Are you an agent or an Area person

Good to have a Betterware person on this thread