Just got the HTC Desire...

Marty_J

23n1th wrote: »

All I see here is apple overpricing their product as usual and as usual not providing anything for people who can't afford or refuse to be extorted that way.

Apple has one product at $600, nokia has hundreds from below £20 to above £400. Some people don't want an expensive "do-it-all" smartphone, some people just want a phone. These cheaper phones which they shift more of is obviously going to bring the average down.

In this respect your example is flawed.

I wasn't giving an "example", I was stating fact.

Apple make more money selling phones than Nokia do, because Apple, on average, make more profit for every phone they sell.

Android is the real target, HTC are just the most popular manufacturer of android phones and are gaining market share quickly.

Most of the HTC phones cited by Apple in the case run Windows Mobile, not Android.

Well thats up to Nokia since they own the patents; Apple are flat out refusing to let anyone else even attempt decent touch screens. Anyway apple can afford it as you say above.

Lots of phones have decent touch screens.

Luckily I'm not in america!!!

It's alright for some.

23n1th

Marty_J wrote: »

I wasn't giving an "example", I was stating fact.

Apple make more money selling phones than Nokia do, because Apple, on average, make more profit for every phone they sell.

You're comparing 1 product against 100's which you've averaged out. A £20 phone is obviously not going to making as much money as a smartphone. Would it not be better comparing like for like as you are continuously saying when people compare a £300 laptop against a £1500 mac.

You're statement of "fact" is also not a good example of why its the money thats being made and not the market share thats important.

Fact is more people are using nokia and symbian than any other phone and phone os, thats important.

Most of the HTC phones cited by Apple in the case run Windows Mobile, not Android.

Well the 20 patents that I read didn't mention any specific phone and mostly consisted of GUI interface things some of which are 15 years old.

Quick break down hear:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/

EDIT: Apologies you're right but check out update 3:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-sues-htc-for-infringing-20-iphone-patents/

"We've just learned that Apple submitted over 700 pages of exhibits to the District Court, which is a little nuts. In addition, the ITC complaint lists a number of specific HTC handsets as exhibits, including the Nexus One, Touch Pro, Touch Diamond, Touch Pro2, Tilt II, Pure, Imagio, Dream / G1, myTouch 3G, Hero, HD2, and Droid Eris. That's really a full range of HTC phones, running both Android and Windows Mobile, with and without Sense / TouchFLO. Interestingly, the Android sets are specifically included because they run Android, while the WinMo sets are called out specifically for including DSP chips, not anything to do with Windows Mobile."

Lots of phones have decent touch screens.

True but put multi-touch gestures on it and apples coming to get you.

Marty_J

23n1th wrote: »

You're comparing 1 product against 100's which you've averaged out. A £20 phone is obviously not going to making as much money as a smartphone. Would it not be better comparing like for like as you are continuously saying when people compare a £300 laptop against a £1500 mac.

You're statement of "fact" is also not a good example of why its the money thats being made and not the market share thats important.

Fact is more people are using nokia and symbian than any other phone and phone os, thats important.

But it's not the market share that's important, it's the amount of money you make. More people use Dells than Macs, but Apple is worth 7 times what Dell is worth.

A company is just a vehicle to make money, and you can't pay your share holders in market share.

Well the 20 patents that I read didn't mention any specific phone and mostly consisted of GUI interface things some of which are 15 years old.

Quick break down hear:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/

EDIT: Apologies you're right but check out update 3:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-sues-htc-for-infringing-20-iphone-patents/

"We've just learned that Apple submitted over 700 pages of exhibits to the District Court, which is a little nuts. In addition, the ITC complaint lists a number of specific HTC handsets as exhibits, including the Nexus One, Touch Pro, Touch Diamond, Touch Pro2, Tilt II, Pure, Imagio, Dream / G1, myTouch 3G, Hero, HD2, and Droid Eris. That's really a full range of HTC phones, running both Android and Windows Mobile, with and without Sense / TouchFLO. Interestingly, the Android sets are specifically included because they run Android, while the WinMo sets are called out specifically for including DSP chips, not anything to do with Windows Mobile."

What does it mean: "because they run Android"?

I can't see why Apple would sue HTC over Android when HTC didn't make Android.

True but put multi-touch gestures on it and apples coming to get you.

Many devices have multi-touch gestures.

23n1th

Marty_J wrote: »

But it's not the market share that's important, it's the amount of money you make. More people use Dells than Macs, but Apple is worth 7 times what Dell is worth.

Well I suppose you must be one of those shareholders! I guess thats where apples priorities lie.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Marketshare is important you want as many people using your things as possible, without those people you dont make money.

Besides anything else as I mentioned nokia is a mobile manufacturer apple is more, comparing their whole business is misleading.

Fact is nokia will always have a bigger marketshare than apple in mobiles because they cater for more people.

A company is just a vehicle to make money, and you can't pay your share holders in market share.

Apple certainly is. I don't think nokias shareholders are too worried. $40 billion isn't exactly a failing company now is it?? I mean seriously.

Does apple have $40 billion mobile phone business?

What does it mean: "because they run Android"?

I can't see why Apple would sue HTC over Android when HTC didn't make Android.

Well its certainly not the hardware apple are interested in is it. The patents are pretty much all software related. HTC enabled features in Android apple dont want it using. Basically HTC phones do what the iphone does (sometimes more) and generally at half the cost.

Its all about the software. Apple aren't going to go directly after google, they're going to scare manufacturers its easier. Just like MS and Linux.

Many devices have multi-touch gestures.

And the majority aren't as good as the iphones, just the way apple want it.

superscaper

I've tried the various incarnations of iPhones for last couple of years, but last month I bought an HTC Desire. In my opinion it's much better, there's a couple of issues I have but I think they'll be resolved with android 2.2 in the next month or so. Pretty damn good value for money as well looking at what iphone would have cost me for equivalent.

spud17

superscaper,
Off topic, but nice to see you posting back here.

buglawton

off topic, why so?

esp when compared to above lengthy posts about Apple & Nokia in legal dispute

thescouselander

I had a go of a HTC Desire a little while back - its a great phone but I'm not sure if I'd buy one. My current experience of owning an HTC Hero has put me off buying any more HTC products. I've been waiting an age for Android 2 on the Hero and the release date just keeps getting pushed back all the time. It seems to me that if you buy an HTC phone it will be out of date as soon as the next version of Andriod comes out - In the case of my Hero it was running obsolete firmware only a few months after I bought it on the release date.

HTC support of their legacy devices it pretty rubbish in my opinion.

superscaper

thescouselander wrote: »

I had a go of a HTC Desire a little while back - its a great phone but I'm not sure if I'd buy one. My current experience of owning an HTC Hero has put me off buying any more HTC products. I've been waiting an age for Android 2 on the Hero and the release date just keeps getting pushed back all the time. It seems to me that if you buy an HTC phone it will be out of date as soon as the next version of Andriod comes out - In the case of my Hero it was running obsolete firmware only a few months after I bought it on the release date.

HTC support of their legacy devices it pretty rubbish in my opinion.

Well I can only speak from personal experience and I'll have to wait and see at release of 2.2. But since I've had the phone I've already had 2 OTA updates so I'm pretty pleased with its' support as the last phone I had (LG) was never updated.

spud17

buglawton wrote: »

off topic, why so?

esp when compared to above lengthy posts about Apple & Nokia in legal dispute

You've got hold of the wrong end of the stick, MY post was off topic, not superscapers.
I was just saying "Hi", and being a gent (assume), superscaper even thanked me.