HTC Desire Vodafone 500mb Fair Usage Policy

MikeKanani

For all of those wondering if because in their last bill they did not use over 500mb, they have no right to complain, the terms in clause 7 states:

b You may end this agreement by writing to us if:
- we increase your charges in the UK which have the effect of increasing your total call and usage charges (based on your usage in the previous month) by more than 10% and you write to us before the increase applies; or

also the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations state:

According to the UTCCR*s, a standard term must be expressed in plain and intelligible language. A term is open to challenge if it could put you at a disadvantage because you are not clear about its meaning - even if its meaning could be worked out by a lawyer. If there is doubt as to what a term means, the meaning most favourable to the consumer will apply.

No by googling the definition of month, the first result is as follows:

calendar month: one of the twelve divisions of the calendar year; "he paid the bill last month"
a time unit of approximately 30 days; "he was given a month to pay the bill"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

The contract does not specify a calender month and therefore the term 'month' can be open to interpretation. Under UTCCR it states that the most favourable to the consumer will apply. This means that useage over the past 30 days MUST by law be examined if this is more favourable to the consumer.

Vodafone's T&C are a complete and utter shambles and could really do with being re-written. However doing that would invalidate every single contract and allow for all all of their 20millionish to be cancelled under clause 11, so they won't do that. At least it benefits us that way

TheLibertine

N20Y1D wrote: »

It looks like Jakub is on Twitter....

@JakubH


edit: and contradicting himself.......

How is he contradicting himself?

Someone on twitter PLEASE send him a message asking him to clarify Voda's ridiculous usage estimates (8,000 bbc stories etc) and ask why if 500mb is plenty for the Desire the Nexus1 gets 1GB!

essex_chris

The problem is that those are the new T&Cs as i understand it, not the older ones. I don't recall anything in the original ones that said anything about 10% change or have i got that wrong?

MikeKanani

essex_chris wrote: »

The problem is that those are the new T&Cs as i understand it, not the older ones. I don't recall anything in the original ones that said anything about 10% change or have i got that wrong?

The terms I am referring to (if that comment was aimed at me, sorry if its not) are:

online.vodafone.co.uk/dispatch/Portal/appmanager/vodafone/wrp?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=template12&pageID=PTC_1111

which at the bottom claims it was "Updated October 2009".

Hope that helps

N20Y1D

The blurb on the tarrifs for the Iphone and Nexus which comes with 1gb reads:

You also get a staggering 1GB of data - enough for 10,000 web pages, over 16 hours of streaming video and generally getting the best from your apps.

Norro

I just found out the FUP allowance on O2 is 20GB for smartphones! That makes it even more incredulous that Vodafone are quibbling between 500MB and 1GB.

essex_chris

Interesting. Ultimately the T&Cs could say anything but given that one thing got sold and another was gets provided then Trading Standards would have something to say about it.

In my case for example i've been this morning to a job interview for which i will be using mobile internet everyday instead of being reliant on Wifi if i get the job of course. So it's a notable difference to me if i hit 501Mb 2-3 months in a row and will then be charged £5 each month.

Had this been the case when i agreed to the contract i would likely have used the PAC code i asked for and gone elsewhere.

I know from my recent enquiries about my tariff problems (billed for a £40 tariff before retention discount instead of £35) that the sales calls for my case are not available otherwise they would have listened to them to confirm - instead they have decided to give me the 'benefit of the doubt' (how awfully nice of them!) and are in the process of crediting my account and confirming that i wll be billed correctly from now on.

In this case it would be my word against theirs in regards to how the tariff was sold and how the FUP was described. Chances are i would again be given the benefit of the doubt.

They can have the handset back if they like, but of course if it's my right to keep it then i'll keep it.

N20Y1D

Tom has replied to questions...

Hello All,

As promised, here are some answers!

1) The 3% of customers who use their 500MB, is this 3% of highend smartphone users? or people with old nokia 6600s?
It's 3% of people with a Mobile Internet Bundle on their account. Normally the only time we'd sell such a bundle would be with an internet ready device, so it's fair to assume a large percentage of these will be smartphones.

2) What constitutes 'excessive'?
It's anything in excess of 500MB on a standard Mobile Internet bundle.

3) How many months constitutes 'a few'?
You will receive a text alert informing you that you’re close to exceeding your monthly allowance. If you continue to exceed your allowance the following month, you will be contacted and we will discuss your options (which may include upgrading to a Mobile Broadband bundle for example). If after this you will continue using your data out of bundle you may incur charges (as per our announcement).

4) How long is "a longer period of time"?
As per 3)

5) Why does the Nexus tariff include 1GB but the Desire only gets 50% of that
Different products come with different packages, we're always reviewing our offers and will let you know if anything changes.

6) Will affected customers still retain a Fair Use Policy in their agreement after 1 June?
There will be an allowance (just like there is now) and if you exceed that, you will be contacted, consulted and may incur charges along the timescales as per 3). The Terms and Conditions say that you would be (see under data access).

7) Will affected customers be automatically charged if their monthly uses strays over 500MB?
Please see 3).

8) Can you please provide a real-life example of a customer who reads and replies to 10,000 emails, reads 8,000 BBC news stories and uses no mobile applications whatsoever? You’re currently justifying a 500MB data limit with a completely fictional example of usage. Vodafone are suggesting that customers who buy smartphones don’t use applications.
The figures given were to illustrate the volumes for the vast majority of customers, but it's almost impossible to give an accurate example as everyone uses their phone differently. I posted here demonstrating my own usage. I've just updated the post to give a more accurate measurement, but it shows that with the two smartphones I've used I havent' excelled 500MB before. Again, everybody's usage is different though, so I'm not saying all of yours will be the same as mine.

9) Have vodafone changed any of the wording in their T&C's?
These are our current Terms and Conditions. See under data access, we have always said customers would be charged for excessive use.

Thanks,

Tom

eForum Team

danielz000

Hello All,

As promised, here are some answers!

...

Thanks,

Tom

eForum Team

That's the nail in the coffin for me! I'm cancelling tonight and using the BW letter... Who's in?

nickmack

N20Y1D wrote: »

Tom has replied to questions...

Are the VF eForum team hankering for a cabinet position in the new government?

Many of these questions have not been answered. I expect they've been given deliberately woolly answers by the VF legal team. Thanks for clarifying virtually nothing!