HTC Desire Vodafone 500mb Fair Usage Policy

Little_Maya

Norro wrote: »

I expect the discussions in the legal dept are on how to avoid that.

Probably, I can't help wondering why they didn't discuss things with their legal department before ... or did they just think no-one would complain?

danielz000

Little_Maya wrote: »

Wouldn't even a "small" change to the terms & conditions require 30 days' notice?

Any change would

Little_Maya

bym007 wrote: »

I have couple of thoughts about that.

A. Vodafone has not sent us any message to notify of this change about to happen. I mean a letter, email, call or text message. EForums are all good, but only 1% (ok I made that up like vodafone) of the customers visit them. So Vodafone has to inform everyone just to be on legal side.

B. Before writing a template, would it not be better to wait for the dust to settle, since Vodafone is changing its mind every 10 minutes. In my opinion, it would be better to wait for a final announcement from Vodafone before sending the letter.

Agree ?

On a side note, I suppose there are a few letters kicking about, but it would be better to consonlidate all into 1 letter effectively! Now who is up for that ?

yep, agree

danielz000

Little_Maya wrote: »

Probably, I can't help wondering why they didn't discuss things with their legal department before ... or did they just think no-one would complain?

With the ridiculous caps they talk of, no one at VF probably noticed how the littleman is using the internet to gang up on the big man... These big companies have been getting away with stunts like this for years, only recently have people been able to converge in such a way as to stop them...

bym007

Little_Maya wrote: »

Probably, I can't help wondering why they didn't discuss things with their legal department before ... or did they just think no-one would complain?

"Duh! Honey we need to talk!"

superbrainz

Little_Maya wrote: »

Wouldn't even a "small" change to the terms & conditions require 30 days' notice?

Do they really need to change their T&C? From what I can understand so far, they are saying that they will only start enforcing their existing FUP strictly and if you exceed the 500MB limit, you will be warned initially with repeat offendors being given the option of upgrading or paying up. All this is already part of their T&C and I think this is what we all signed up for so I am happy as long as they don't charge me £5 for using say 501MB each month.

It looks like Vodafone are finally seeing sense about this issue (perhaps due to all the flak they are facing via the forums and blogs) and going about it in a more appropriate fashion rather than indiscriminately start charging anyone exceeding 500MB (and thus contradicting their T&C).


I am not happy about their definition of 'unlimited' though and their (what I believe) unfair and false advertisement policy but that is another matter altogether. I'm also willing to continue fighting agains this and the discrimination between Desire and Iphone/Nexus users as far as the FUP cap is concerned but it looks like there is nothing to back us up if they simply start enforcing the FUP as per the latest statements.

After this debacle I don't think I will stick with them once my contract runs out (or I end it if they enforce changes to the T&C ). My wife is on an O2 simplicity with a web bolt on and I had been encouraging her to move to Vodafone and get a Desire/Iphone. However, after this, I will ensure she stays away from Vodafone.

Little_Maya

bym007 wrote: »

"Duh! Honey we need to talk!"

lmao I think their legal people need to go back to school, as it seems we are able to pick holes everywhere...

danielz000

superbrainz wrote: »

Do they really need to change their T&C? From what I can understand so far, they are saying that they will only start enforcing their existing FUP strictly and if you exceed the 500MB limit, you will be warned initially with repeat offendors being given the option of upgrading or paying up. All this is already part of their T&C and I think this is what we all signed up for so I am happy as long as they don't charge me £5 for using say 501MB each month.

It looks like Vodafone are finally seeing sense about this issue (perhaps due to all the flak they are facing via the forums and blogs) and going about it in a more appropriate fashion rather than indiscriminately start charging anyone exceeding 500MB (and thus contradicting their T&C).


I am not happy about their definition of 'unlimited' though and their (what I believe) unfair and false advertisement policy but that is another matter altogether. I'm also willing to continue fighting agains this and the discrimination between Desire and Iphone/Nexus users as far as the FUP cap is concerned but it looks like there is nothing to back us up if they simply start enforcing the FUP as per the latest statements.

After this debacle I don't think I will stick with them once my contract runs out (or I end it if they enforce changes to the T&C ). My wife is on an O2 simplicity with a web bolt on and I had been encouraging her to move to Vodafone and get a Desire/Iphone. However, after this, I will ensure she stays away from Vodafone.

It seemed that way at first but AndyWick's post's make it seem like they might need to change the T&Cs as there was no standard price plan in place for people with unlimited products and also there was no definition of excessive usage...

I suspect this will get very interesting very quickly!

bym007

danielz000 wrote: »

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=32690957&postcount=9

Can you adapt that?

I have had a look at your template. I disagree with point # 02, whereby the letter argues that based on previous months' usage, this will increase my bill by 10%. When I signed the contract, there was no hard-cap agreed on the "unlimited Internet". So, as soon as that becomes hard-cap ie 500MB, the terms have changed.

Apart from that it all looks good!

MikeKanani

Ok heres what ive figured out so far, but please correct me if I am wrong.

The fair use policy states:

27. All Vodafone services offered free or under unlimited subscription are subject to our Fair Use Policy. If, in the reasonable opinion of Vodafone, your use is excessive, we may ask you to moderate your usage. If, after we have asked you to moderate your usage, you fail to do so, we reserve the right to:
(a ) charge you for the excessive element of your usage at your price plan's standard rate;
(b ) throttle your usage; or
(c ) suspend or terminate your service in accordance with your airtime terms and conditions.

Currently there is no rate to be charged at, so the standard rate is £0.

The standard rate is being increased from £0 to £5 per 500MB. This is changing the charges.

Section 7.a of the Terms and conditions states:

a We may change our charges or introduce new charges. If we increase our charges, we will give you at least 14 days' notice and you may have a right to end this agreement under clause 11. If we believe any change in our charges will not disadvantage you, we may include it without telling you.

There is a clear increase and therefore we are able to cancel the agreement under clause 11.

Clause 11 states:

b You may end this agreement by writing to us if:
- we don’t do something fundamental that we should have done under this agreement (for example, if there is a complete failure of the network for seven days in a row due to something we have done), within seven days of you asking us in writing;
- we tell you that there will be an increase in the line-rental charge by more than the increase in the retail price index (worked out as a percentage) since the last line-rental increase and you write to us before the increase applies;
- we increase your charges in the UK which have the effect of increasing your total call and usage charges (based on your usage in the previous month) by more than 10% and you write to us before the increase applies; or
- we change this agreement to your significant disadvantage including changing or withdrawing services (we will tell you if this is the case) and you write to us within one month of us telling you about the change. This does not apply if the change relates to services which you can cancel without us ending this agreement.

So anyone on a sub £50 plan using 1-500mb above the "excessive usage" will be able to cancel the contract. Similarly with 501-1GB over on sub £100 etc.

The only issue I can see here is the definition of "excessive usage". However as the fair use policy is set at 500mb (anyone have anything to back this up?) and no alternate value is give, then it would be reasonable for the customer to assume this is the definition being used to classify "excessive usage".

I may be miles of but this is how I see things as they stand.



EDIT:
Another point - clause 11 states "increasing your total call and usage charges". Would that mean this would not include the cost of line rental (ie the monthly cost of the plan) and would only include "out of bundle" charges?


EDIT 2:
Link to Price Plan Terms From July 1 2009 (includes FUP):

online.vodafone.co.uk/dispatch/Portal/appmanager/vodafone/wrp?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=template12&pageID=PTC_0124

Link to Pay monthly airtime agreement:

online.vodafone.co.uk/dispatch/Portal/appmanager/vodafone/wrp?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=template12&pageID=PTC_1111