Four legs good two legs bad...

Spartacus_Mills

michaels wrote: »

Sad thing is when a politician is sure of your vote they will do sweet FA for you - why bother as you will vote for them anyway? - see for example African-Americans and the Democrats.

I hate to disappoint people on here who think that some are just venting their private views every time they spout the party line on here. I think several are paid representatives of said political parties who are bringing the campaign to voters by whatever 'channels' present (stand up Liz Estelle). I also suspect that such people are quite able to supply their dark arts to whoever pays best and their allegiance may be much more to do with who pays their salary than any personal conviction...

You ought to try the forum on Politicalbetting.com it is full of Labour bunkerbots astroturfing away for their party. They are so obvious, like they are here, as they always say the same thing and make the same points. Mind you unlike here there are their fair share of Tory ones in play as well.

Your first point I think was valid up to about 2000. The assumption was that the white working class for Labour and the right wing euro-sceptic for the Tories had nowhere to go so they took them for granted while they fought like ferrets in a sack for the middle ground.

The BNP have now stolen in and are taken lots of white working class votes from Labour. Do not blame the voter for that like the political classes do. They feel let down by Labour who have taken them for granted so have found a home. Same goes for the Tories with UKIP although UKIP do attract some off the left of Labour as Euro-scepticism transcends party politics. The right believing it is all a socialist plot and the left believing it is all a capitalist plot. Even the Greens can target the Lib Dems and believe me at a local level in some areas the relationship between both is visceral. They hate each other. The vitriol for the Greens on the Lib Dem forums during the Norwich North by-election was amazing.

ninky_2

Spartacus_Mills wrote: »

Clown supreme ninky has started a thread about a business lobby group that opposes the Tories plans on immigration. This is the same poster who was desperately claiming last week all businessmen were Tories because of the NIC thing. You could not make it up.

These people are imbeciles on all sides of the divide and there are plenty of Tory and Lib Dems bunkerbots out there as well but refreshingly few on here. It does seem to be primarily Labour trolls we are infested with although other forums differ for this.

I am a Lib Dem but I can see the good in some Tory proposals and see the good in some Labour proposals and see the weakness in some of our proposals. It is nice to debate around that premise for all instead of re-reading the same rehashed party BS trotted out from forum to forum.

i think you missed out bunkerbot this time......

sailing very close to the abuse button there. back off the personal insults please. forum rules.

Flearoy

benb76 wrote: »

Best put that extra money aside to pay for the increase in tax elsewhere.

Perhaps you are right, though I personally believe that future tax rises under a Tory government would be 'less bad' due to a thriftier budget. Hopefully come the general election I'll have the chance to be proven right or wrong...

bo_drinker

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Some labourites looking on to GB as if he was the second coming. Even the BBC picked up on it.

You simply don't get this from the other parties.....as far a I can see.

You need to look a bit closer, they are all the same. :cool:

Spartacus_Mills

ninky wrote: »

i think you missed out bunkerbot this time......

sailing very close to the abuse button there. back off the personal insults please. forum rules.

No, I missed grammar (f)lamer in your case. You started the personal abuse. You stop it. Capiche.

I stand by everything I said. Your utter hypocrisy in starting the thread I refer to absolutely stinks. You lack consistency in what you say and no doubt you support the Labour policies they have taken from the Tories and no doubt should Labour take the Tory manifesto you would support that. You have no credibility and cannot be taken seriously.

MRSTITTLEMOUSE

dandy-candy wrote: »

Is anyone else here amazed by how some posters are so vehemently pro one party and anti another even when a good/bad policy comes along? I think every party has a few policies I like and a few I don't but some here I imagine would rather stab themselves to death with their party rosette pin before admiting it. And whats with all the "I won't vote Labour because of what happened in the 1970's" or "I won't vote Tory cos of Maggie" - don't people ever see the parties in their current form? I'm waiting for a "I won't vote Liberal cos Gladstone was too familiar with fallen women in the 1840's" post...

People have always done it though.
Some people don't even look at the policies on offer they just vote what they always do or their parents have.
I remember my grandparents in the early 60s,you did'nt want to be around them come election time,they'd actually come to blows.
My grandfather was a miner and staunch Labour,to the point he would'nt even buy property and rented the same house for over fifty years.
The rent he paid he could of bought that house twice over.
My grandmother had come from a well off background and to her Conservative was the only way to go,even though she'd married and was living working class.
I don't think they ever listened to policy,it was a case of voting just what was expected of them.
I know a lot who still do the same,especially up here in the North where I live.
You could put a monkey up for election for Labour up here and they'd vote for it.
Why?,"because we've always voted Labour" they'll say.

ninky_2

Spartacus_Mills wrote: »

No, I missed grammar (f)lamer in your case. You started the personal abuse. You stop it. Capiche.

I stand by everything I said. You utter hypocrisy in starting the thread I refer to absolutely stinks. You lack consistency in what you say and no doubt you support the Labour policies they have taken from the Tories and no doubt should Labour take the Tory manifesto you would support that. You have no credibility and cannot be taken seriously.

with all due respect.....:mad:

can you point to a single post in which i have used personal abuse?

the only person i could possibly be accused of doing that to on these boards is george osborne by calling him gideon (sorry i just can't help it!). as a public figure i think he can take it. it is not just you i pointed out the error of spelling his name osbourne to. i have also done so to martin lewis himself and to his board editors (who had rather embarrassingly mispelled it in their calls for questions to the would be chancellors). they corrected the mistake and thanked me.

i started a very reasonable thread in which i pointed out that a city lobby group had criticised the tory policies on capping skilled migrants. when nickmason (a signed up conservative member) stated that the lobby spokeswoman is a member of the labour party and therefore just towing the party line i pointed out this was incorrect - she is in fact a crossbencher and the lobby group is non partisan. i don't think it is hypocritical of me to post that thread at all. it does not contradict my criticism of city executives who have spoken out against labour's (very small) national insurance rises. it is merely showing that the city has criticisms of both labour and the tories for different reasons. and people are free to decide which criticisms are valid.

perhaps you have been spending too long on various other forums and the debate has made you focus you ire on me. i don't know.

i only post on here (since they closed down the richard dawkins forum), am not a labour party member and am just giving my own views for what their worth (clearly not much in your eyes).

you have your opinions i have mine. i would be interested on yours on the tory immigration proposal rather than your views on me as a 'bunkerbot', 'imbecile', 'clown' etc.

now let's move on from this personal nonsense please.

i apologise if i offending you by pointing out your spelling error. admittedly darling has an easier surname to get right!

sammyjammy

tomterm8 wrote: »

Hmph... so you don't think that instead of rising national insurance, the Torys will just increase another tax (VAT?) instead. The UK government has a gap of 13% of GDP betweeen what it raises in taxes and what it spends. So, clearly, unless we are in a fantasy magic world, taxes will rise.

That would be my only reason for voting Tory (I'm not by the way), I would much rather spread the cost throguh the whole country including those on benefits than have the workers and the employers pay for it.

We are in this mess as a country and we should pay for it as a country.

Sam

Sir_Humphrey

I have to say that most of the people who are shilling parties seem to be Tories or UKIPers to me. Not that there aren't any from other parties too.

Not really astroturfing though, as local activists are genuine grassroot political operators.

I saw enough as a student to spot a political hack a very long way away.

Spartacus_Mills

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

I have to say that most of the people who are shilling parties seem to be Tories or UKIPers to me. Not that there aren't any from other parties too.

Not really astroturfing though, as local activists are genuine grassroot political operators

I saw enough as a student to spot a political hack a very long way away.

There are plenty of Labour shills in this thread and in the Discussion Time thread. Plenty of them. I have seen precious few Tory shills and no Lib Dem shills.

Local activists are perfectly capable of astroturfing, genuine or not.