Polish president's plane crashes in Russia + head of the Central Bank

carolt

At what point do you get Hitler turning away from socialism? Because presumably you don't deny that that happened... :eek:

Lol at Wikipedia as one of your sources! Don't think you would have quoted that in one of your essays (had it been around then!).

I have first-hand evidence - my dad was a child in Germany, then, and has talked about how all the children in his class knew exactly who was a socialist/communist and who was a fascist. He and his sister, 3 years younger, would discuss it in bed after lights out. He was born in 1922, to give you some sense of era. Even to tiny children (my dad would have been less than 10, his sister less than 7), the distiction between the two sides was (a) blatantly obvious, and (b) vitally, vitally important.

I still cannot believe you could confuse the two.

Whatever your views on socialism and your desire to discredit it.

amcluesent

I was just thinking how this country would feel if Clown went down in a fireball from a doomed aircraft...

nickmason

carolt wrote: »

At what point do you get Hitler turning away from socialism? Because presumably you don't deny that that happened... :eek:

Early on, c1922, because as far as I understand the definitions, the addition of a nationalist element to the socialist ideology rather distorted it beyond any recognition. But again there's a definitional problem - are we talking in terms of ideology or public awareness?

The initial construction of the Nazi party, with its 25 point plan drawn up by Hitler and Drexler, and drawn mainly from the nascent German Workers Party and another group of socialists, initially had a large amount of socialist policies in it:
1) nationalisation of industries and department stores
2) abolition of unearned incomes and ground rents
3) confiscation of profits made during the war
4) compulsory acquisition of land required by the "state".
The accepted wisdom is that these were put in by Drexler, who was a self-proclaimed Socialist - but if that's the case, it doesn't explain why Hitler teamed up with him in the first place. After all, his group was only 54 people strong when Hitler joined, attracted as he says to Drexler's philosophies.

From memory, by the time he wrote Mein Kampf there was hardly a hint of socialism as we know it in his views (beyond the contemporary version of "grandma and apple pie").

Lol at Wikipedia as one of your sources! Don't think you would have quoted that in one of your essays (had it been around then!).

I have first-hand evidence - my dad was a child in Germany, then, and has talked about how all the children in his class knew exactly who was a socialist/communist and who was a fascist. He and his sister, 3 years younger, would discuss it in bed after lights out. He was born in 1922, to give you some sense of era. Even to tiny children (my dad would have been less than 10, his sister less than 7), the distiction between the two sides was (a) blatantly obvious, and (b) vitally, vitally important.

By the depression, the three main parties were national socialists, social democrats and communists. I agree that at that time it was necessary from a personal security point of view to know which were which as they each had their own "private armies" (the SA, etc). All of the three were rabidly anti the other.

I still cannot believe you could confuse the two.

Whatever your views on socialism and your desire to discredit it.

Cleaver

amcluesent wrote: »

I was just thinking how this country would feel if Clown went down in a fireball from a doomed aircraft...

99.99% of the people who hate Brown and all he stands for still don't want to see him come to physcial harm, let alone die. It takes a certain spiteful and twisted person who would celebrate the death of someone they didn't agree with.

nickmason

Cleaver wrote: »

99.99% of the people who hate Brown and all he stands for still don't want to see him come to physcial harm, let alone die. It takes a certain spiteful and twisted person who would celebrate the death of someone they didn't agree with.

You wait until Margaret Thatcher dies. I remember a rumour of that going around, and I was flabbergasted by the delight of a number of lefties. Dancing on her grave.

tomterm8

nickmason wrote: »

You wait until Margaret Thatcher dies. I remember a rumour of that going around, and I was flabbergasted by the delight of a number of lefties. Dancing on her grave.

I think maybe 20 years ago... but now I feel very sorry for her. Altzheimers is a horid disease; frankly, I think I would prefer to die than suffer that particular disease.

C_Mababejive

Word over at Prune is that the airstrip was military. as such there were no approach lights or ILS (instrument landing systems) and approach would have been heavily reliant on visuals. Not good in fog. Had made 3 (?) attempts and on the fourth attempt,abandoned approach again,banked to go round and as plane banked,the wing dipped and clipped trees..the end.

Kohoutek

Northenden wrote: »

wouldn't be at all surprised if swine flu had been synthetically created and released. Reasons for this ? Not sure...Maybe Financial gain or just control.

I don't know about swine flu, but Bill Gates is proposing using vaccines to lower world population:

"First we got population. The world today has 6.8 billion people. That's headed up to about 9 billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUJMR3BUm2s&feature=related at 2:40

I thought vaccines were for saving lives Bill!

1984ReturnsForReal_2

Cleaver wrote: »

Asheron, it's very uncharacteristic of you to see something and then make a leap to assume that there must be a conspiracy of some sort. You're normally very level headed and sensible about things.

Maybe it were those lizard people who did done this?

Did you know plane & helicopter crashes are quite a popular way of assassination?

amcluesent

>Did you know plane & helicopter crashes are quite a popular way of assassination?<

Not forgetting the car crash into a concrete pillar in the Parisian tunnel!