Over Insured.........CARDIF PINNACLE

marshallka

robbedofmymoney wrote: »

email them and tell them you are now going to go to the ombudsman unless they reconsider their decision within 7 days, the rules on insurance are quite clear for these type of policies,

you are only able to claim a maximum percentage of your gross income in total, this is dependant upon your tax bracket, ie, higher tax rate of 40% will mean that you are prevented from claiming any more than 60% of your gross monthly income, and for standard rate tax payers its about 80%. some insurers will pay out along side others and some won't, but there is still an overall combined limit.

the system and the rules are in place to prevent people earning more than thier income from insurance policies.

apparently it's there to "protect insurance companies" :rotfl::rotfl:

their policy may state that they will pay out along side another policy, but they still will not pay out if this exceeds the total you are allowed.

here is the association of british insuraers guidance for limitations on income protection, (starts on page 22)

http://www.abi.org.uk/Information/Codes_and_Guidance_Notes/531.pdf

if this was an advised sale its important that they assessed your individual needs, if they had done this then they should not have advised you purchase this policy.

if it was bought without advice you do also have a case if they have not made clear the limitations on how much you can claim in total (combined policies), unless you really know a lot about insurance you would not know this so they can't assume you would. (which is what they are saying and trying to pass the buck)

we have all been caught out (conned) over the years with these policies.

don't let it drop, and go to the FOS if they continue to ignore your claim.

Hi Robbedmymoney, this guy from Pinnacle stated that because our policy is actually classed as MPPI it would pay out also with all the other policy we had. (we have now cancelled it of course).

He did say "in his opinion" though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. That would mean that people could protect their mortgage payments (not attached to the mortgage as you use the cash for other bills also) and income and be better off (IF ILL) as we would by 35 to 50%% of our income. Would this be allowed as I was told last month by them that one policy would reduce the other??

Their Policy was written in 2001 and it states NOTHING at all about other policies OR works pay etc. Not a thing!!

robbedofmymoney

marshallka wrote: »

Hi Robbedmymoney, this guy from Pinnacle stated that because our policy is actually classed as MPPI it would pay out also with all the other policy we had. (we have now cancelled it of course).

He did say "in his opinion" though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. That would mean that people could protect their mortgage payments (not attached to the mortgage as you use the cash for other bills also) and income and be better off (IF ILL) as we would by 35 to 50%% of our income. Would this be allowed as I was told last month by them that one policy would reduce the other??

Their Policy was written in 2001 and it states NOTHING at all about other policies OR works pay etc. Not a thing!!

he is being very careful in the way he is wording things by the sounds of it.

he is correct, you can have MPPI and income protection, i have both of these, they will both pay out becasue combined they come to approx 60% of my gross income which is my limit, if it were to go over this i would have problems in trying to get all of the money out of one of them, in which case one would be useless. (or not as valuable as it should be)

he is trying it on, he knows that they will not pay out if it means you will get 35% more than your current income, it's as simple as that, i'm sure there are some expert insurance advisors on this site, but i know you and me are right on this one.

if this guy is being silly or obstructive just write to him giving him a final 7 days and then go to the FOS otherwise its just going to drag on even longer.
i would ask him to confirm to you in writing that his policy would pay out if it would have meant you got 35% more than your current income. he will not do this in these words as he know he is wrong, but its worth putting that question to him for confirmation.

this is as clear cut as any case out their and even more so if it was an advised sale.

maxdp

Marshallka

How are you going to take this forward? There does seem to be grey areas with this (that they seem to be creating) and it would be good to have it defined. Wonder if Dunstonh could through some more light on it. I really hope this gets sorted for you.

marshallka

maxdp wrote: »

Marshallka

How are you going to take this forward? There does seem to be grey areas with this (that they seem to be creating) and it would be good to have it defined. Wonder if Dunstonh could through some more light on it. I really hope this gets sorted for you.

Hi maxdp, how are things with your MIL etc? Hope things are going well.

Yes this is a grey area and that is why he states "in my opinion!!".

I think that this could be a reason that lots actually could make complaints when taking out insurance. It "assumes" that the consumer knows everything about just how much you can insure yourself AND use the policies you are paying for. I had no idea of this 75% thing. I am a little busy at the moment but I am working away in the background.

Terms and conditions in insurance do not make it clear (or mine do not anyway) just how much you are allowed to claim and also if you get works pay through sickness how that is treated. You would never actually know until you make a claim and then it is too late. You have relied on it. I have cancelled our policy with them because I do know there would be trouble using it alongside our other policy as it would make us better of (betterment) by being sick and I don't think that is allowed according to things I have read but I need to google the ABI etc and come back with good solid evidence.

I am going to take this to FOS but first I will do as robbedofmymoney has said and let them know and hope they come back with a more favourable response. I doubt it though as they are just "playing" with us. They are certainly not the professional company I thought they were and they have actually being playing a game (taking it to the final moment to say no) and that is what I do not like. I would NEVER recommend them to anyone. In fact googling them says it all.

maxdp

marshallka wrote: »

Hi maxdp, how are things with your MIL etc? Hope things are going well.

Yes this is a grey area and that is why he states "in my opinion!!".

I think that this could be a reason that lots actually could make complaints when taking out insurance. It "assumes" that the consumer knows everything about just how much you can insure yourself AND use the policies you are paying for. I had no idea of this 75% thing. I am a little busy at the moment but I am working away in the background.

Terms and conditions in insurance do not make it clear (or mine do not anyway) just how much you are allowed to claim and also if you get works pay through sickness how that is treated. You would never actually know until you make a claim and then it is too late. You have relied on it. I have cancelled our policy with them because I do know there would be trouble using it alongside our other policy as it would make us better of (betterment) by being sick and I don't think that is allowed according to things I have read but I need to google the ABI etc and come back with good solid evidence.

I am going to take this to FOS but first I will do as robbedofmymoney has said and let them know and hope they come back with a more favourable response. I doubt it though as they are just "playing" with us. They are certainly not the professional company I thought they were and they have actually being playing a game (taking it to the final moment to say no) and that is what I do not like. I would NEVER recommend them to anyone. In fact googling them says it all.

I wonder how this makes sense for all those of us who have had PPI on all credit cards and Loans and Mortgate. We must be well over insured. Especially if you have lots more debit they would all be covered bu would they be if it is more than 65% 70% of your salary. I know that seems a huge amount but lots of people may be in that situation. MIL is not too good at mom. What are you busy with I am interested

marshallka

maxdp wrote: »

I wonder how this makes sense for all those of us who have had PPI on all credit cards and Loans and Mortgate. We must be well over insured. Especially if you have lots more debit they would all be covered bu would they be if it is more than 65% 70% of your salary. I know that seems a huge amount but lots of people may be in that situation. MIL is not too good at mom. What are you busy with I am interested

Hi maxdp, sorry about your MIL. I bet its a difficult time for you all.

I am busy for now with other "probs" but should be posting again soon but have just googled this...............

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/insurance/2937957/Dont-pay-for-double-cover.html

Its going back to 2006 but what Cardif Pinnacle are saying is that there policy would pay out before the works one which is Permanent Health insurance (although they will not answer if they would pay out if getting sick pay in full as well and keep ignoring that question) but when the works one kicked in this would be reduced by the amount we get from them. They are just trying to wriggle out of it and say that we should have known this. I will have them but I just need to get my wording and legalities correct. They are only saying "in their opinion" which is not very professional at all really as they will not state fact. Very sad from a top man at Cardif TBH.

If you google BETTERMENT you will see where I am coming from.

marshallka

Just found this on *** Insurance terms and conditions


EXISTING PAYMENT PROTECTION POLICY

If you already have existing loan or payment protection policies you may "transfer in" (see Transfer in) your loan and/or mortgage and then, if you wish, add additional cover for your other monthly outgoings to the maximum benefit allowed.
If you choose not to transfer in please remember that in the event of a claim your total income, including all insurance benefits and state benefits, should not exceed your current net monthly income as declared on your application form and that any amounts above your declared net income may be deducted from your benefit amount.
For example, if you earn £1000 and you chose to protect the full 75% against unemployment, this means your monthly benefit, should you claim, would be £750 a month. Add to that your Jobseekers' allowance (approximately £57 per week) and you total income is still less than your declared net income of £1,000. However if you then receive benefits from an existing policy this would take you over £1,000 and any additional monies above that sum may be deducted from our benefit payment to you.
Income Protection Insurance Jargon Buster

Does this also apply to MPPI and other insurance like Payment protection etc? Lots would like the answer to this one.

If you have PHI and then MPPI and payment protection insurance on loans and credit cards etc would you be able to claim on ALL of them at the same time taking your income well over what you would usually earn when you are ill or do they all affect each other.

What are the actual insurance rules with regards to income?

marshallka

Sent another letter to Cardif Pinnacle "Hellupay" and received a reply by return stating that they are not backing down so got everything sent off to FOS.

Just have to wait in the queue again now.

robbedofmymoney

marshallka wrote: »

Sent another letter to Cardif Pinnacle "Hellupay" and received a reply by return stating that they are not backing down so got everything sent off to FOS.

Just have to wait in the queue again now.

i think we were all expecting this response,
you are definately doing the right thing by going to the FOS,
keep at it, you will win through :j:j:j

di3004

marshallka wrote: »

Sent another letter to Cardif Pinnacle "Hellupay" and received a reply by return stating that they are not backing down so got everything sent off to FOS.

Just have to wait in the queue again now.

Blimey again in the queue.........hope you hear of a hopeful result soon Marshallka.;)X