Seeking Possesion Notice Advice PLS.

kev1n3

princeofpounds wrote: »

I think the idea is that the notice has no force unless it is followed by court proceedings. So although it sounds very final and aggressive it doesn't really mean much in itslf. Of course there should be an investigation before such things are sent out, but often things just aren't done properly.

[FONT=&quot][/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Yes, she pointed out in her email that the Notice was a [/FONT][FONT=&quot]'legally prescribed format' [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

kev1n3

iB1 wrote: »

On page 3 of your scanned in document, it mentions, as well as the allegation of propping open the security doors, that you've behaved in a "confrontational and aggressive manner" to other residents/visitors and have hurled abuse in communal areas.

Have you had any verbal confrontations with the alkie, or any other residents/visitors in your block?

At one time or another I have helped all of the block residents that live here. I have always kept the garden clean and tidy all the year round, purchased and fitted net curtains to all the block landing windows, purchased house plants for all the landings. Purchased garden furniture for everyone’s use during the summer months. I have a good name for helping the more venerable members of society around here. I keep myself to myself and work long hours .I do not consider myself to be an aggressive person in nature or aproach and would hope i am not seen as such by anyone.

I’m sure there is a bigger picture to this, I think it deserves some research. I keep asking myself ‘Am i missing something’? [FONT=&quot][/FONT]

BitterAndTwisted

I would accept the issuing officer's offer of a meeting to discuss this and see what they have to say about it. In the meantime I'd be having an informal chat with some of your neighbours to see if you can find out what might be behind this.

I notice you haven't answered iB1's question about whether you've ever had any verbal confrontations with the alkie, or any other residents/visitors in your block. Well, have you? Or anything that could have been construed as one?

squinty

kev1n3 wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]The issuing officer has replied and reads like they do not want to give any information. They say i know enough to be warned and if the matter progressed to a court hearing evidence would need to be produced as per County Court rules to allow me to prepare a defence. She ended her email saying she will meet me to discuss but has no further information for me.. A bit pointless then eh?[/FONT]

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That is a strange point of view.

However, it is only the officer who served the notice who has replied,

I would make this formal. The council should have a complaints proceedure on its website - follow that. This will generally mean that the complaint will be looked at by someone who was not involved in the issue to date.

Your complaint appears to be that :

1. You have been served a notice, but you have not been previoulsy been made aware of any problem. If this problem is so serious that a NoSP was needed, why was this not discussed previously?

2. You have asked for clarification on the complaint. You wanted this to understand that, whilst you believe that your behaviour has never breached your agreement, you wanted to be certain that you were not inadvertantly upsetting someone (or breaching your tenancy) - and were quite willing to modify your behaviour if this was the case.

3. Linked to this, you wanted to ensure there had not been a case of mistaken identity.

4. The officer has told you that you would only be provided with information if the case goes to court. Why? If the case does go to court the council need to spend money. This is entirely avoidable

AND - Also ask for a copy of the councils ASB procedure

Make this complaint in writing

princeofpounds

Squinty is giving you the right advice here. I would also continue the discussion with the councillor in parallel.

I think it's pretty unacceptable that the housing officer is not prepared to give any information and is hiding behing their legalese.

I think what she is trying to do is a) avoid writing anything down that actually accuses you of anything and exposes them and b) trying to imply that the notice doesn't mean anything without court proceedings, at which point you will be given all the evidence that will be used against you so you can defend against it. Which means they may well not even have any, and if they do it's not currently enough to take you to court with (otherwise they would be in court process already).

Whilst in a funny kind of way the latter aspect is reassuring, it doesn't give you much in the way of reassurance as you probably feel like a court summons could drop through the door any day.

The ASB procedure/policy is important not just because it will deal with how this should have been investigated, but also because it might give you an idea of the rights you may ahve to get involved in the process.

When you complain, you should always try to point out where the council is breaking its own policy and procedure.

iB1

kev1n3 wrote: »

At one time or another I have helped all of the block residents that live here. I have always kept the garden clean and tidy all the year round, purchased and fitted net curtains to all the block landing windows, purchased house plants for all the landings. Purchased garden furniture for everyone’s use during the summer months. I have a good name for helping the more venerable members of society around here. I keep myself to myself and work long hours .I do not consider myself to be an aggressive person in nature or aproach and would hope i am not seen as such by anyone.

I’m sure there is a bigger picture to this, I think it deserves some research. I keep asking myself ‘Am i missing something’?

That's all very well... but it hasn't really answered my question. Have you had any altercations with members of your block of flats or their visitors that could be construed as being aggressive and/or confrontational?

Also, apologies if I've missed it, but how did you find out who your accuser was?

kev1n3

princeofpounds wrote: »

Squinty is giving you the right advice here. I would also continue the discussion with the councillor in parallel.

I think it's pretty unacceptable that the housing officer is not prepared to give any information and is hiding behing their legalese.

I think what she is trying to do is a) avoid writing anything down that actually accuses you of anything and exposes them and b) trying to imply that the notice doesn't mean anything without court proceedings, at which point you will be given all the evidence that will be used against you so you can defend against it. Which means they may well not even have any, and if they do it's not currently enough to take you to court with (otherwise they would be in court process already).

Whilst in a funny kind of way the latter aspect is reassuring, it doesn't give you much in the way of reassurance as you probably feel like a court summons could drop through the door any day.

The ASB procedure/policy is important not just because it will deal with how this should have been investigated, but also because it might give you an idea of the rights you may ahve to get involved in the process.

When you complain, you should always try to point out where the council is breaking its own policy and procedure.

Yes.. i do feel i could get home one eve from work and a cort summons waiting for me. Its a very scarey feeling.

I found the Council's ABS procedure online. I copied there obligations to the alleged [FONT=&quot]perpetrator. [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]The alleged perpetrator will only be visited with the permission of the complainant unless there is a clear and visible breach of the tenancy agreement that we would wish to deal with. They will not be told who the complainant is unless the latter agrees to this.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Neighbourhood Manager will:[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Record details of the interview[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Explain to the alleged perpetrator the nature of the complaint, invite their comments and seek a resolution of the conflict if possible.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Discuss the option of mediation where appropriate[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Explain whether the alleged perpetrator is in breach of their tenancy agreement, and what they need to do to comply with the agreement and what further actions will be taken.[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]The next step will depend upon the results of the negotiations with the complainant and the strength of the evidence against the perpetrator. NM’s need not necessarily tell the alleged perpetrator what action will be taken at the interview. This is because they may wish to discuss the case with colleagues, or because they consider it better to advise the perpetrator in writing for reasons of personal safety.[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]If the alleged perpetrator is a vulnerable person with special needs the NM should liase with the perpetrators family or the relevant agencies to enlist the necessary care and support before deciding on what action to take.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]In all other cases, where there is clear evidence of a breach of the tenancy agreement the NM will agree a remedy with the perpetrator if possible: e.g. agree a deadline to clear up a mess.[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]If there is insufficient evidence of the tenancy agreement has been broken, and it is clear that we are in no position to act – the perpetrator will be advised that the situation will be monitored.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]The NM will confirm the situation in writing to the perpetrator and the complainant. The complainant will be advised to contact us if the situation persists – if nothing further is heard from the complainant within 3 weeks we will regard the case as closed.[/FONT]

..........................................

I suspect Bullet Point One would be used to justify no investigation before issuing the Notice? They know what they are doing cuz they have every angle covered.

This is also interesting because Statements must have been made for them to issue the Notice.

Taking statements from witnesses

· [FONT=&quot]Witness statements will normally be taken prior to a Notice of Seeking Possession being served. [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]They will assist in producing a detailed notice. They can be amended or added to right up to the court date. [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]The NM may decide to take a statement to officially record some incidents or one serious incident and keep it on the house-file for future reference.[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]The NM will need to make it clear to the complainant that taking a statement will not always lead to court action.[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]If a perpetrator is served with a NSP they will normally be given the opportunity to mend their ways or the statement alone may not constitute sufficient evidence to take someone to court.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In complicated cases it may be necessary to involve the Housing Manager (anti social behaviour).
............................................
It's going to be an unfamiluar and confusing road im sure.

Thank you.




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squinty

I think I have also found a copy of the same procedures - the bit that stands out most to me is the section about serving a notice.

I'm not sure that have following thier own process here - and the final paragraph is very clear

[FONT=&quot]"Tenants must be able to understand what behaviour is causing the nuisance and what action they must take to avoid court action. If the tenant then continues to breach their tenancy conditions they are aware of the consequences[/FONT]"

In your case it seems that not only have the council not done this, but have refused to provide this understanding when you have asked !!

You now need to make a formal complaint

(Apologies if I have the wrong council !!)

kev1n3

iB1 wrote: »

On page 3 of your scanned in document, it mentions, as well as the allegation of propping open the security doors, that you've behaved in a "confrontational and aggressive manner" to other residents/visitors and have hurled abuse in communal areas.

Have you had any verbal confrontations with the alkie, or any other residents/visitors in your block?

[FONT=&quot]Sorry I took so long to answer your post - I read it last night just before going to bed. I thought I would sleep on your question to be sure I am being honest with everyone and have a good think before answering. Yes, I did upset a resident when he first moved into the block about 4 years ago. He is a young lad of 22 (at that time) and a wheelchair user.

He had/has a weekend job as doorman at the local Friday night Kids Disco (13 to 16 year olds) for a local door security firm. He often would bring a gang of the kids home with him around midnight on Fridays and Saturdays. Sometimes being woken several times a night before having to do a hard days graft has an effect on your performance at work. In my job Performance equals earning. Anyway, all hell would let loose with kids running up and down the stairs shouting and screaming until 2 or 3 am. (god knows where their parents were) This one night the whole block was woken by kids trying to boot-down the front security door. There was about 12 of them. I shouted down to them to stop it and to calm down. Sudenly the resident came out the door and leaped out of his wheelchair and was fighting and rolling about on the grass with a young girl. I called the police to take the kids home and strongly recommend the police inform there parents know they are using a single mans flat as a hang-out. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] All of the other residents strongly objected to having children in the block- never mind his flat. Things progressed onto the kids showing up at his flat 3 or 4 times a week after school- spending hours in and out of his flat and tunning around on the landings. Anyway. I asked him to stop having children in the block because I felt it wasn’t right to which he tried to defend. To cut a long story short he didn’t stop it so I wrote to the council asking them to have a word with him because I and other residents feel uneasy with Kids in the block. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
About 6 months later I received a letter from some solicitor informing me I had smashed a woman’s car up in our street. I ignored the letter because i couldnt realate to it - ntil one night a woman was banging on my door screaming and shouting abuse at me for smashing her car up. I had to call the police to have her removed. I thought she was some crazy woman and didn’t think anymore of it until a cpl of Sundays later when I saw this woman going into this lads flat downstairs. . About 3 weeks later I received another letter from the lawyer reading me the riot act of how he is going to take me to court etc for smashing up this woman’s car.. I contacted my insurance company to act for me so to get this woman of my case. A cpl of days later my insurer's called to ask what had happened with the accident. I explained to my insurers that there was never any accident and that the claimant is the mother of a 22 year old boy that lives in the same block as myself- that I reported to the council for regularly entertaning children in his flat. Didn’t hear anything else again. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]However, a cpl of moths later she did comment in passing there would be a next time. But I think that’s all been forgotten about. Or at least I thought it was until I just read this back... .. Naa.. can’t be - can it?

The reason I assumed it to be the Alki is because about 2 months ago I was on my way out the door to work at 05.30 in the morning. I live on the top floor so have to walk down 3 flights of stairs to get out the front door. (I'm a builder so I wear protective boots) The boots are rubber soled so don’t make any noise. He was waiting for me one morning at the bottom of the stairs(not drunk) and said 'cant you walk down those stair a little quieter because your waking me up every morning'. to which I replied 'I go to work every day and pay tax that give you the power to spend your benits, that I contribute too, on Special Brew everyday- you should be thanking me not bothering me' to which he said 'we will see about that wont we.' as I walk off.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]OMG this has become a lot more confusing.[/FONT]

kev1n3

squinty wrote: »

I think I have also found a copy of the same procedures - the bit that stands out most to me is the section about serving a notice.

I'm not sure that have following thier own process here - and the final paragraph is very clear

[FONT=&quot]"Tenants must be able to understand what behaviour is causing the nuisance and what action they must take to avoid court action. If the tenant then continues to breach their tenancy conditions they are aware of the consequences[/FONT]"

In your case it seems that not only have the council not done this, but have refused to provide this understanding when you have asked !!

You now need to make a formal complaint

(Apologies if I have the wrong council !!)

Great point. [FONT=&quot]Could it be argued the NOSP is there way of informing me of what behaviour is causing the nuisance? [/FONT]