Severn Trent dispute - advice needed.

deanos

Gothicfairy wrote: »

The fact they did not know about the flat is not their fault , It sounds like it is a build that no one bothered to declare ( it might be worth checking with the council for the tax )

ST would have fitted the meter so they would have been aware, it probably never got to the billing system for whatever reason which is not uncommon so just got lost in the system.

I would take a reading including red digits and take another one in 7 days x by 52 and that will give an estimate years useage so you can try and work out your consumption

Gothicfairy

It is true that it might have got lost, there is also the possiblity it was installed as part of a new converstion but they were never advised the supply became active.
Either way the OP has lived in the property since 2007 and would be made to pay water from that date unless they can provide evidence to state someone else was responsible for the charges.
Also no water company have to start a bill from an actual reading so they can and do go to court over est readings as long as they have an actual in the period of occupation ( or every 12 months)

The account should have been in the landlords name up to the date the tenancy agreement changed but that looks like it has not happened so STW will go back and bill the person who was using the supply.

Also the OP can ring STW and ask what the reads are, I know it is not the same as a bill but it would save the guess work.

As far as I can see the company have billed to the date the op moved in, as it their legal right and they have billed using whatever reading they have, which again is their right.
It is going to be down to the OP to supply the documents they require and that will then sort the issue out. Also it really is down to the householder/ tenant to make sure they get a start reading as that means they are not going to be charged for anyone elses water.
The landlord should have sorted all this out if they were taking money from the tenants for the bills.
I would be annoyed at the landlord more then anything as they have had the money and clearly not paid the bills.
What else will be arriving through the door I wonder ?

timberflake

Gothicfairy wrote: »

Either way the OP has lived in the property since 2007 and would be made to pay water from that date unless they can provide evidence to state someone else was responsible for the charges.

This is wrong, I don't have to evidence of who was respobsible for the charges before I moved in.

As far as ST are aware, my move in date was 1st June 2009, and my tenenacy agreement reflects this. Who pays the bill before that is not my concern.

What is my concern is what the starting meter reading was. If it was zero, I'm going to have to squeeze my LL so I can evidence to ST that the apartment has in fact been lived in for a much longer period than two years so that they can pro rata the bill over the correct period and therefore bring the amount I owe down.

Gothicfairy

You moved in may 2007 ? ? So you were responsible from then, was the council tax bill in your name ? Did you not have an agreement from then?
I am slightly confused now, you said you were living there and thus were using the water supply. Why should you not pay for it then ? If you paid the landlord then that is their responsiblity and thus they should have an agreement with you and should also have had the account in your name.

I think you will find that STW will hold you responsible from the date you moved in unless you can prove otherwise.
The starting read should have been provided by either you or the landlord and if that has not happened then they can use an est reading based on consumption since 2007.

Call them and ask what reading they are using and when they read the meter. Just because it was not billed does not mean it was not read.

However I think they will expect you to provide the evidence and not the other way around and legally you have been using the supply since 2007 ( if I have read all your posts correctly)

timberflake

Gothicfairy wrote: »

You moved in may 2007 ? ? So you were responsible from then, was the council tax bill in your name ? Did you not have an agreement from then?
I am slightly confused now, you said you were living there and thus were using the water supply. Why should you not pay for it then ? If you paid the landlord then that is their responsiblity and thus they should have an agreement with you and should also have had the account in your name.

As I said in my original post, I moved in to this apartment in 2007 as part of a flatshare paying £525 all bills in (council tax, water, elec etc). I had an agreement too. However, in June 2009 my flatmate moved out and my girlfriend moved in. At this point I told me LL that we would pay her rent, but arrange the utilities etc in our name. At this point we got a new tanancy agreement commencing from 1st June 2009

So, as far as I'm concerned from May 2007 - May 2009 I've paid my water via my LL. I am going to provide ST with my tenancy agreement which shows I moved in on 1st June 2009. Once ST have this, they can render a bill for the period from 1st June 2009 to now and I can then take issue with the rate we're being charged.

Gothicfairy

I really can't keep up
You said you moved in May 2007 then you said you moved in July 2009, you were told to provide tenancy agreements and said you would not as it was not your problem and you were not going to drop the landlady in it.

You have said that you are not responsible for anything before you "moved" in but you keep changing your mind.

You moved in May 2007 and paid the landlady so unless you have a signed agreement that states your bills are included you WILL be made to pay it from May 2007, if your landlady calls and refuses to pay based on their being a tenant in the property YOU will be made to pay.
You seem to think you hold the cards and don't want to show them, your tell is not that good though. You used the water since 2007 and it would seem no one paid. You are going to have to drop the landlady in it and make her pay and you also need to get the meter readings from May 2007 and when you " moved in" June 2009, which of course as a responsible tenant and bill payer you have.
I see though that you did not answer my question about other bills and council tax etc.

Just call STW and get the meter readings and try to explain the situation better then you have done here and take it from that.

timberflake

Gothicfairy wrote: »

I really can't keep up
You said you moved in May 2007 then you said you moved in July 2009, you were told to provide tenancy agreements and said you would not as it was not your problem and you were not going to drop the landlady in it.

You have said that you are not responsible for anything before you "moved" in but you keep changing your mind.

You moved in May 2007 and paid the landlady so unless you have a signed agreement that states your bills are included you WILL be made to pay it from May 2007, if your landlady calls and refuses to pay based on their being a tenant in the property YOU will be made to pay.
You seem to think you hold the cards and don't want to show them, your tell is not that good though. You used the water since 2007 and it would seem no one paid. You are going to have to drop the landlady in it and make her pay and you also need to get the meter readings from May 2007 and when you " moved in" June 2009, which of course as a responsible tenant and bill payer you have.
I see though that you did not answer my question about other bills and council tax etc.

Just call STW and get the meter readings and try to explain the situation better then you have done here and take it from that.

I'm explaining it as clear as I can but you don't seem to understand.

At no point have I said I won't give ST my tenenacy agreement, in fact, I want them to have it to prove I am responsbile for the water from June 2009.

I don't think I hold all the cards, however, on the moral front I have done nothing wrong. I am trying to pay ST from June '09 until now, but I really can't see how I should be made to pay anything until such time as I receive a bill and have had a chance to review it.

I couldn't give a monkeys about the water before June 2009, I paid my LL and if she didn't pass the money on to ST then that will be a conversation I will need to have with her.

Its very easy to say "just drop your LL in it", but when you're the person living in their property they could make our lives very difficult by doing this.

As for the Council Tax, thats another story similar to this one. Long story short, she fiddled the CT for a while until she was caught out and had to bring it up to date. After that she excluded CT from our rent and my name went on the bill.

Are you somehow saying that ST can check with the Council as to who's name is on the bill? If so, my name has been on the bill since the 2008/2009 year.

Gothicfairy

"Rightly or wrongly its absolutely nothing to do with me who is responible for the water before June 2009 and I have no obligation to chase that debt on behalf of ST"

"This is wrong, I don't have to evidence of who was respobsible for the charges before I moved in. "

See why I was confused ? You seem to be changing your mind which is why I don't get it

"couldn't give a monkeys about the water before June 2009, I paid my LL and if she didn't pass the money on to ST then that will be a conversation I will need to have with her."

Indeed you will but I am still wondering how this is anything to do with STW ?

You are responsible in their eyes since 2007 so it is all down to you to get everything to them, and yes STW can check council tax bills and other sources if they need to..They can also run credit checks .
You seem to be making this something that it is not..STW is not in dispute with you, your landlady is.
Send them your tenancy agreements and your starting meter readings and it will all be sorted.
Someone will have to pay the bill and as long as you have all your paperwork in order it will not be you..So not really sure what the whole point is to be honest.

Cardew

Whilst your aim is understood, I suggest the saying 'you can't make an omlette without breaking eggs' has some relevance!

You are looking at the situation totally from your aspect and if not ignoring the fact that you have been using water since 2007 and that someone has to pay, do not intend to reveal who should pay before June 2009; 'aiding and abetting?'

You also conveniently ignore the fact that you should have notified the Water company in June that you were now responsible for bills; which could be taken as you also thinking you would get away without paying like your landlady.

Personally I would not condemn ST if they were less than sympathetic.

Gothicfairy

To add to Cardew's very sensible post.. You were responsible for taking meter readings when you "moved in" and when you "moved in proper" or asking STW to take readings for you.

I can see why they are struggling to understand your side of things