Money Moral Dilemma: Should Janet pay John’s tip?

Pellyman

Not so easy this one. Too many unanswered questions. 1. Is John going to slip the waiter a tenner on the way out? 2. Did the waiter manage to upset him during the meal? 3. Was John's food not up to the standard of Janet's?. 4. Has John spent more than expected and can't really afford to tip? etc. etc. etc.

First date too, always dodgy! On this occasion I suspect Janet would be best advised do nothing (except feel sorry for the waiter). If she tries to do anything it could offend or embarrass John. However, if he does it again the next time and it upsets her, then she could always ask if he has a principled objection to tipping.

At least she will then know the reason for his action and can make a considered decision based on that.

The whole question of tipping is a 'principle versus practice' dilemma in it's own right, of course. In principle most customers would prefer not to feel obliged to tip - if decent service is supplied then it should be charged for. However, in practice employers in the catering trade use the opportunity for staff to earn tips as an incentive, to encourage staff to perform to their full potential. Consequently they tend to offer lower wages. At least that practice gives customers the opportunity to reward (or not) the perceived service they have received and without it we would almost certainly be asked to pay more.

We all know that to be the case and I feel that refusing to tip good service 'on principle' is merely a case of meanness by the customer, that deprives the staff rather than the 'unprincipled' employer.

The problem is when we receive good service but lousy food - or vice versa. That the whole system stinks is obvious, but it 'is the system' and individual customers must really accept that fact - not deprive pleasant, hard working, staff of decent earnings.

grrrl

I tip about 10% for a satisfactory level of service and more if the service was exceptional.

Sometimes places add on the "discretionary" service charge and assume you'll pay it. I had that once at a Japanese restaurant - I was coming down with a really bad cold, wanted a drink and could hear the staff talking and laughing loudly out of view.

I was too ill to wander into the kitchen and ask for a drink, so after 45 minutes once I'd finished eating, I just went and asked for the bill. They seemed really surprised when I refused to pay the service charge, but as far as I was concerned, I hadn't received any! No wonder the place was so empty on a Saturday night!

I told them as much too and they were very apologetic, but it was too late by then.

Also, I will only let a man buy me a meal if he lets me return the favour at a later date - I'd much rather go Dutch!

Pegase

I don't agree with tipping, for the reason other people explained.
I particularly resent the 'optional' service fee being included automatically in the bill.
the ONLY time I gladly tipped (instead of peer-pressured in it) was at an Argentinian restaurant when I asked for advice on what to chose and the result was excellent. THAT was behind the waiter's job (which is take your order and bring you the dishes in a timely and polite manner) which is why I tipped.

LRon

This is more a question of etiquette than morality

gaily

Lurleene wrote: »

A simple ' as you've been so kind getting the bill at least let me cover the tip' should do the trick!

I think this is the only way to go!! Unless John has a real problem with the waiter - but can't see this causing any rifts.

I think this may be a common response (having not read past the first one before replying!)

Now I've read the rest of the responses, I'd forgotton the can of worms that tipping opens up. The question clearly states that Janet feels a tip should have been left. Should she do it? I still say yes if she wants. If john doens't agree, then maybe they have one less thing in common than they thought!

Tulgey_Wood

She should do what she wants to do and not worry about how John will perceive her decision; he paid for her meal, not her right to think for herself.

Youngy

What if they'd gone to a restaurant that adds 12.5% onto the bill automatically? This is the sort of thing that annoys me, as there's no need for the waiting staff to go the extra mile because they get the tip by default unless you make a scene and ask for it to be taken off.

A.Jones

I couldn't care if Janet pays or not, I rarely tip in a restaurant as I don't believe most waiting staff actually deserve it.

In line with moneysaving, I just hope John had the courage to use tescos vouchers to pay for the meal on a first date.

gjohnson

Everyone seems to introducing their own assumptions and hypotheses (and prejudices!) to this forum, and sight seems to have been lost of the original question. 4 key things stand out:

1. They have received wonderful service;
2. Service wasn't included in the bill;
3. John didn't leave a tip;
4. Janet feels one was deserved.

If Janet feels that way, of course she should leave a tip. I agree completely with the poster who said that this is a question of etiquette rather than morals. The REAL question - having established through the original question that Janet would like to leave a tip - is how she does it without offending John. On this score, I couldnt agree more with the OP. A simple and polite "since you have been so generous in paying for the meal, please allow me to take care of the tip" should suffice. That should enable her to leave a tip as she wishes to, without offending John.

For what its worth, my two penn'orth is this. Its that whole "one good turn deserves another" ethos that tipping is based on, and that people seem to forget. Good service begets a tip, begets good service.

Here's one small example: when we order a take-away, I always tip the delivery driver a pound or two - which is probably 5-10% of the cost of the meal. A couple of weeks ago, I bumped into him in the pub and we exchanged pleasantries. Whilst we were chatting, he told me that he always delivers our food first as he knows he usually gets a tip. He actually drives past other customers houses to ensure we get our food first, and piping hot!
Another one. The hairdresser I go to always gets a tip of a couple of pounds. When I took my toddler in for a trim a couple of weeks ago (usual charge £12), she refused to take any payment. Granted it took her about 5 minutes and £12 is over the top anyway, but thats not the point. The point is that she returned my good turn with one of her own.

Maybe all you non-tippers should bear that in mind next time your takeaway arrives lukewarm...

Life is too short to grumble your way through it and resent others for what they get or have. All this "why should I tip, when I don't get tipped for my job" is nonsense! If you can afford it, you should do it because it is a nice thing to do, and in similar circumstances you'd want the same in return.

Glad I got that off my chest!

awehla

I agree with others that this is a good test of the relationship and if Janet is that bothered she should offer to cover the tip. I would feel guilty letting a man pay on a first date and would insist on paying next time if there is a next time.