1 Pixel = 1 million Dollars

Generali

JP45 wrote: »

I'm as angry as ever but (like others) my anger is largely directed towards the bankers.

As for "voting for the same people that let this happen to you", that seems to imply that had we had a Tory government for the past 12 years then we could have somehow escaped the crisis.

Much as I detest Gordon Brown and long to be rid of him, I simply cannot believe that we'd have avoided this mess - largely of the bankers' making - under the Tories.

I accept that we would almost certainly have entered the crisis with a lower deficit but we'd still have been faced with the cost of bailing out the banks and the impact of the global recession. There's no reason to believe that the UK financial regulatory regime would have been any tougher or more effective under the Tories.
.

To clarify, when I say 'the same people' I mean Lib Dem, Tory and Lab.

kennyboy66_2

Generali wrote: »

http://i.imgur.com/C5hAo.gif

£76bn To purchase shares in RBS and Lloyds Banking Group
£200bn Indemnify Bank of England against losses incurred in providing over £200bn of liquidity support
£250bn Guarantee wholesale borrowing by banks to strengthen liquidity in the banking system
£40bn Provide loans and other funding to Bradford & Bingley and the Financial Services Compensation Scheme
£280bn Agree in principle to provide insurance for selection of bank assets

The above is the rough UK government support.
Comes to about £846bn (I appreciate that Northern Rock doesn't appear, but I assume it is in the B&B section).

Difficult to estimate exactly what the net outcome will be, but my guess is less than £100bn.

I would probably prefer this to a full blown depression, which would have been fairly inevitable had the banks not been bailed out. Even at a mere 10% fall in GDP that would have resulted, then GDP would have been £100bn lower every year for probably at least 5 years (In reality if we look at USA between 1929 - 1938 the reality would have been much, much worse).

I am not aware of any of the main parties campaigning on the policy of "we would have let the banks fail" so who do you suggest I cast my vote for.

Despite numerous regularity failures, ultimately the bank failures were a failure of Capitalism, because no economic system is perfect.

Just because its a failure of Capitalism doesn't mean I should vote Communist.

lemonjelly

Generali wrote: »

http://i.imgur.com/C5hAo.gif

An interesting way to look at the US bailouts and subsidies of the financial system.

I really don't understand why people aren't angrier about this. You will spend the rest of your lives paying this off and you don't care enough even to look beyond voting for the same people that let this happen to you!

It is interesting gen - & thanks for sharing it with us.

Like some posters above, I feel that there is anger out there (partly why I started a thread on the social implications of the downturn some time ago). Thing is, I think that so many people don't know who or what they are angry with, or even why. They just know they are angry.

Various people are trying to shift blame away from themselves.

Some who work in finance have done little to ingratiate themselves, and have come out of it a little worse. Yet we get fred the shred sitting nicely out of all this.

But at the same time, a lot of people are having to deal with how the downturn has directly affected them. They are having to deal with higher bills, fuel costs, improving personal budgets, cutting back, making do & mending. There really are people who are just coping on a week to week basis.

The notion that we are close to returning to normal (being espoused by some here, & in the "real" world) is misdirected I feel. We had over 10 years of easy credit & good times. To balance this out we are likely to have a fair few years of hard times, & this is just the beginning.

I worry peoples lives could get tougher in the next few years, regardless of the outcome of the GE. What really worries me, is that angry people will then look for targets, people to blame. Problem is, when they are angry, they won't necessarily pick the right ones, but easy ones, or will simply lash out.

In summary, I think there is a lot of anger out there, but it is a confused anger, & people are distracted from it.

kennyboy66_2

Generali wrote: »

To clarify, when I say 'the same people' I mean Lib Dem, Tory and Lab.

I happen to live in a constituency where there is a real close race between Labour and Lib Dem, which is great.

75% of the UK population live somewhere where you can say with 99% certainty who will win, not just this year but for the next 20 years.

Besides, the real problem is not banking bailouts, but open ended unfunded promises and spending 25% than the current tax take.

purch

I really don't understand why people aren't angrier about this

To find the people to blame we only need to look in a mirror.

Yes we can be angry with the Politicians who were too eager to ensure they retained their positions, and the Bankers who were too eager to take a slice, but each and everyone of us must accept some of the blame, and until we realise we need to face up to where we went wrong, things will never change.

Really2

purch wrote: »

To find the people to blame we only need to look in a mirror.

Could not agree more
Greed was abundant from ever higher saving rates to 125% mortgages the greed was there in all quarters in the boom.
What gets me is that even now people are still looking around believing they were not part to the excesses.

We all were anyone who saved, invested, borrowed or spent went along with it.

StevieJ

Generali wrote: »

To clarify, when I say 'the same people' I mean Lib Dem, Tory and Lab.

Ahhh so the BNP would have been far smarter

ninky_2

Generali wrote: »

http://i.imgur.com/C5hAo.gif

An interesting way to look at the US bailouts and subsidies of the financial system.

I really don't understand why people aren't angrier about this. You will spend the rest of your lives paying this off and you don't care enough even to look beyond voting for the same people that let this happen to you!

but we don't get to vote in US elections....unless i'm missing something here.

i thought you supported the bank bailouts in the uk?

most people are savvy enough to realise the real power does not rest with the people we elect. they can only moderate the fallout. i think of the main political parties labour is probably the best, possibly lib dem. definitely not conservative.

StevieJ

Really2 wrote: »

Could not agree more
Greed was abundant from ever higher saving rates to 125% mortgages the greed was there in all quarters in the boom.
What gets me is that even now people are still looking around believing they were not part to the excesses.

We all were anyone who saved, invested, borrowed or spent went along with it.

You can't call people greedy for looking for the best rates, classic example was Icesave, there were guarantees up to 20k and 35k ( it wasn't obvious at the time that the UK govt wouldn't cover the first 20k). I personally would not have reinbursed anyone over the guarantee limits.

ninky_2

i'm more angry about the destruction of the rainforest and other ways capitalism has removed access and diversity in the commons (by which i mean land sea etc not the house of). when you start talking trillions of dollars it's all just figures really. to me real value lies elsewhere.