case (6 bottles) Tattinger £65 + p+p

Teetotal_2

I ordered wine on 8th March in response to the Telegraph's advertisement and payment was taken on the 9th. I was told by Surplus Wine that delivery would take about fourteen days. I telephoned last Saturday 20th to establish delivery time and was informed that it would now be delivered on Saturday 27th between 1 and 4 p.m. (this is beginning to look like the standard time!) Needless to say, no wine has arrived. I have already contacted my credit card company and they are suspending this payment pending completion of a form they are sending to me. As Surplus Wine now have all my credit card details, including the security number, I have cancelled the card. This may not be a scam but it seems to have all the appearance of one.....! However, as one of your other correspondents has said, "if this is so, they have gone to an enormous amount of trouble for what appears to be very little profit."

champducoq

In response to Kevinz3, the whole point was that this firm was allegedly set up solely to clear a parcel of bankrupt stock. That a large wine merchant should go bust or be in trouble should not surprise anyone and, as I have mentioned already in this thread, I saw the entire stock of one wine merchant being sold in the early 90s by the receiver at around 10-15% of cost price (that would equate in today's money as about £7-15 for a bottle of Cristal ! The only thing that ever made me wary was that they felt they had to place an advert in the national press when noone in 'the trade' had been approached first.

kevinz3

the whole point of a sting is to advertise it very well and to get the response from the unwary , if you saw 100 bmw's for sale at a grand apiece would you buy them from a just made up website and an unknown source with a free phone number, i think not , thats why in todays world you have to question it, the wine could have been sold to the trade or auction and made more money than the prices on the website, anyway lets hope all get refunded

champducoq

Fair 'nuf, but the website was registered by a limited company based in Leeds which had been trading in restaurants and wine since 2003, made a healthy profit last year and, according to its last published accounts had over 150k in the bank. My guess (for what it's worth) is that M Lefrancq (the owner of the company) saw the possibility of buying a large parcel of wines, most likely from a European source who need money quickly and advertised wines he didn't own to raise money to buy them or equivalent wines. The fact that no wines have yet surfaced implies, still following this theory, either that the wines became unavailable (receivers moved in first on troubled company), not enough cash was raised or (least likely) that the wines are actually en route. As for the prices, I've seen and purchased better, although not that often. Still, it's going to be a long wait to find out the truth.

kevinz3

good for you if you can find prices even better than that but any wine at prices like those offered would make me wary for sure , and also the url only became live i think in feb 2010, and as for the guy running it who knows, i for one would not wait over 2 weeks for stock they did not even physically have

irishdids

champducoq wrote: »

Fair 'nuf, but the website was registered by a limited company based in Leeds which had been trading in restaurants and wine since 2003, made a healthy profit last year and, according to its last published accounts had over 150k in the bank. My guess (for what it's worth) is that M Lefrancq (the owner of the company) saw the possibility of buying a large parcel of wines, most likely from a European source who need money quickly and advertised wines he didn't own to raise money to buy them or equivalent wines. The fact that no wines have yet surfaced implies, still following this theory, either that the wines became unavailable (receivers moved in first on troubled company), not enough cash was raised or (least likely) that the wines are actually en route. As for the prices, I've seen and purchased better, although not that often. Still, it's going to be a long wait to find out the truth.

"Tim"

Did the same myself a few years ago. Bought bankrupt stock that took forever to get released. Does Kent want any 05 CB BX BTW? + some Clos St Martin:rotfl:

130charlotte

Quite a migration I see from that other thread....between the two I am learning a fair bit. Irishdids - I am interested to hear that bankrupt stock can take an age to be released - maybe M Lefranqc has gone to chase it up?

Also as written on the now deleted thread on WP one person knew Denis Lefrancq and vouched for him, saying that Denis had told him he had several pallets of wine to sell, physically there in Leeds. When I spoke to the call centre and once to Denis Lefranqc at the restaurant they/he were adamant the stock was there, but said they were short of some of the wines, (but that my order was fine;)). Also that they were focussing on local deliveries first and that the logistics were being a nightmare owing to the huge response to the ads. I am a Londoner so I was keen to ask when my area was going to be supplied and was told - like so many - the 25th. Still waiting.

Also (building on something of what champducoq was saying), maybe Denis is sleuthing around Belgium or France searching for more bankrupt stock....I much prefer happy endings.:)

champducoq

Sean, I assume that's you. Always happy to look at anything at the right price. Email me over some details some time.

Charlotte, if I had to put money on this, I would say that DL never set out to defraud anyone but has tried to make a fast buck using other people's money and it has all gone slightly skew whiff. He might been trying to buy the assets of a firm which has since had receivers appointed and assets frozen. Just an idea. And European logistics, while far more efficient than 30 years ago, can still take much longer than expected, especially in times when some urgency is required. 1% chance of wine turning up as described. 89% chance of money being returned in full. 10% chance of everyone involved losing money

irishdids

Hmm.. Charlotte,

like you I was told the same and heard the same else where, somebody on the WP forum actually got through to the restaurant manager on the Thurs evening and was told there were 24 containers sitting in storage in Leeds. I am sure he was "told" that rather than physically seeing the stock. I am sure the sales people were saying anything to reassure the multitude of calls they were fielding asto "where's my wine?". I do not believe for one minute there is a single bottle of wine laying in storage in Leeds, and hope that the non arrival of wine has come about due to fact that there is trouble getting it released. Might be a problem with the bonded warehouse not getting paid if it is liquidated stock. I stress that this is hope. Cynical me errs towards the scam theory. Like you I do prefer happy endings though.

What puzzles me in this whole affair is how the hell can the restaurant take bookings when they are clearly have not been answering the phone since Friday? Does anybody know if it is still open?

130charlotte

Yes I agree my hunch is that it is not a deliberate failure - my hope is also that denis lefranqc is trying to sort out this mess. I almost feel sorry for him. Of course I do not underestimate the worry caused to his would-be customers though, and that includes me.

Also I agree completely about wondering how the restaurant can be doing - they are taking email bookings I imagine, and locals could drop in. but what a tense time for all involved. I have a local friend who I am going to ask to go round and have a look - he's an ex wine merchant which means hopefully he'll be as intrigued as we all are. I'll report back