Any idea who's favour this is going to go in?

Graham_Devon

davilown wrote:

Unfortunately you can't prove that it arrived therefore there's no proof of it being sent. Always go a min of recorded delivery.

:beer: monster

Recorded delivery don't mean anything.

Basically paypal will then go down the route of 'has this been signed for by the PERSON in question and has photo ID been proved by royal mail or the courier'.

I've been reading https://www.paypalsucks.com and recorded delivery honestly means absolutely nothing, unless you can prove, beyond any doubt that the person you sold it to IS the person who ACTUALLY signed for the item. This is with photographic ID evidence, which no courier asks for.

Payapal have covered themselves completely for any eventuality of a credit card chargeback. I.e. if the buyer didnt win the claim, they would just chargeback. So, let them win the claim, it's easier.

I think I'll have to bite the bullet now and stop using paypal, knowing full well I will lose some buyers.

soolin

Paypal won't care about her previous claims, although it is worth noting that they only allow 3 in a year so she is either spreading them out or using different paypal accounts. As can be seen from the thread this was never going to go any other way than for the buyer, there was no way the seller could win this.

However, she can be stopped. If a seller does a quick once over the feedback for any buyer and sees this feedback then they can protect themselves by using recorded delivery. OK it will cost 68p but if I got this buyer I would certainly rather lose the 68p than the full item cost. Also as she is insistent she has not received the item then a claim via RM could be done and again this might trigger something if the RM start getting lots of claims for this particular address.

Soo

soolin

Graham_Devon, don't believe everything you read in on the scare sites. Recorded delivery is sufficient to stop a chargeback assuming of course that delivery has occured.

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_help-ext&ui_mode=answer&prior_transaction_id=0&action_code=4&answer_id=6894796&leafid=95937&_PPP=511&_PPC=4&_FI=Tracking_Deliveries

Quite often you will find on the scare sites that people believe merely sending it recorded is enough, not realising it has to be delivered as well. It is also worth noting that the RD slip must track to the correct address, again many stories hinge on the fact that the sender used a different address, and would therefore also lose a claim.

Also, where is there any requirement for photo ID? UK citizens are not required to have ID so the Royal mail can hardly insist we all carry it around in case the postman knocks. Th eonly time we need to show id is if we go to a sorting office to collect a parcel, even then there is no requirement for it to be a photo id. I certainly don't have any photo id.

Graham_Devon

soolin wrote:

Paypal won't care about her previous claims, although it is worth noting that they only allow 3 in a year so she is either spreading them out or using different paypal accounts. As can be seen from the thread this was never going to go any other way than for the buyer, there was no way the seller could win this.

Soo

Ahhhh!! Now that explains why her paypal account only had 1 verfied transaction! I wondered what that was all about when I first had the claim put to me. A seller with 280 feedback with only 1 verfied transaction. My paypal has over 140 verified transactions and I have less feedback than her!

Well she certainly knows the system!

She also sent me an e-mail 3 days after I sent the item asking what the 3rd button in on the monitor did. I have tried to get a paypal address to send this to, but I need to open the case and after ringing paypal to complain, they just are not interested and would need to pay £7 for the investigation.

Also the women on the phone advised that e-mail is not satisfactory proof, as I can make it up. So annoying when you know shes sitting there looking at the thing, has asked about the monitor, I've helped and then does this.

Guess it's just some people are like that, know the system and will use it.

soolin

Graham_Devon wrote:

Ahhhh!! Now that explains why her paypal account only had 1 verfied transaction! I wondered what that was all about when I first had the claim put to me. A seller with 280 feedback with only 1 verfied transaction. My paypal has over 140 verified transactions and I have less feedback than her!

Well she certainly knows the system!

It has always struck me as odd that paypal have this three claim limit yet actually don't seem to object when you open a new paypal account and start again.

It is very easy to play the system so us sellers must stay one step ahead all the time. I like the suggestion that when leaving feedback, even positives, it is worth making an 'aside' and mentioning that item was lost. I tend to do this in case a pattern develops for any buyer.

Soo

soolin

Oh, and don't forget to block her from bidding again on any of your auctions!

I'd hope she wouldn't have the cheek, but you never can tell.

Soo

Graham_Devon

Shes blocked already and has blocked me from hers as I was gonna buy something and then claim, hehe. Shes got all bases covered!

Are there any viable paypal alternatives yet? I'm dying for google to bring their system out in the UK. I'm even looking at starting to use ebid.tv and PPpay.

barnabee

Graham - you could try a different tack. I believe you will have her full postal address. Why not try to contact the local police in her area and ask them to investigate a possible fraud/deception. You may get fobbed off with 'this is a civil matter' but it is worth a try.
It wont be classed as a priority case but if this buyer is as dishonest as suggested the address may well be linked to other police matters. Provide any details of the monitor including serial number. You may be able to do all of this over the net as many police forces have online crime reporting sites.
Pity we can't have a 'block these buyers/sellers' sticky on the forums.

soolin

Unfortunately as far as buyers are concerned there is no real alternative to paypal at the moment. If the buyers won't change away from paypal then that rather forces the sellers hand.

Like a lot of people I will only buy when I can use paypal, so no paypal equals no sale for me.

Also, if I might add something that is going to be a bt controverisal here, I wonder if your own terms set you up as a mark? I'll explain as best I can (stick with me as my explanations are notoriously bad ).

I read a lot of the unmoderated ebay boards and quite often people post about auctions where the seller maybe doesn't understand ebay or how paypal works. It isn't too far down the thread before some bright spark will say something about buying an item and testing the sellers policy...in your case you have the optional insurance which means you are likely to send the item without insurance, hence no RM claim and no trail back to the buyer.

I'm not saying that happened in this case, it is just a suggestion. As you've found out to your cost insurance is for the sellers benefit and not the buyers benefit and paypal were never going to find for you.

paypal isn't 100% secure, no payment method is except possibly bank transfer, but if you are going to accept any form of payment you must know what you are liable for. If you are going to continue accepting paypal while you have a rethink then take out the optional insurance and just add it to the cost for items over £32.

Graham_Devon

soolin wrote:

Unfortunately as far as buyers are concerned there is no real alternative to paypal at the moment. If the buyers won't change away from paypal then that rather forces the sellers hand.

Like a lot of people I will only buy when I can use paypal, so no paypal equals no sale for me.

Also, if I might add something that is going to be a bt controverisal here, I wonder if your own terms set you up as a mark? I'll explain as best I can (stick with me as my explanations are notoriously bad ).

I read a lot of the unmoderated ebay boards and quite often people post about auctions where the seller maybe doesn't understand ebay or how paypal works. It isn't too far down the thread before some bright spark will say something about buying an item and testing the sellers policy...in your case you have the optional insurance which means you are likely to send the item without insurance, hence no RM claim and no trail back to the buyer.

I'm not saying that happened in this case, it is just a suggestion. As you've found out to your cost insurance is for the sellers benefit and not the buyers benefit and paypal were never going to find for you.

paypal isn't 100% secure, no payment method is except possibly bank transfer, but if you are going to accept any form of payment you must know what you are liable for. If you are going to continue accepting paypal while you have a rethink then take out the optional insurance and just add it to the cost for items over £32.

It's a fair idea. But, how would that work when the parcel or package has been delivered, but you get a chargeback or a claim. RM aint gonna pay out, as as far as they are concerned, they have done their bit.

So, your actually paying more, for the same outcome?

In this case, the buyer I believe has taken delivery of the monitor as she asked the e-mail question about the thing. So RM have done their job. She still won the case. So I would have paid more, to gain nothing?