Any idea who's favour this is going to go in?

Graham_Devon

Buyer buys an item from me (value £63) of which I sold quite a few.

Takes normal postage and does not take insurance which is offered. Stated in my ebay ad that the buyer won I have this:

"Insurance is available. You do not have to purchase this, but if you do, your monitor will be insured while in transit for £120. If you do not take the insurance which is offered, please bear in mind that I cannot do anything once the parcel is in Royal Mail's hands and cannot be deemed responsible for any damage or losses."

Buyer states that they never recieved the monitor and automatically enter a paypal claim. Paypal asks for my details of how I sent it etc.

Give paypal the details, they thank me, investigation on hold.

Buyer has written to me several times to just end the dispute and issue a full refund. I have said no, no insurance was taken and referred her to the above paragraph in the ad.

Shes ignoring the above paragraph and still asking for a full refund. Shes an experienced ebayer also, as I am (Ive actually got powerseller status at the moment).

Paypal can see no insurance was taken, as they can see my ebay ad.

However, this will go in the buyers favour I am presuming? Every other claim I have had has gone in their favour. How am I to know she aint got the monitor?

As a good will gesture I have offered to go halves, i.e give her £31.50 back so we both lose out. Shes said shes NOT happy with that and wants the full ammount.

She never took insurance which was offered, my sentence quite clearly said I would not be liable for any damge or losses which may arise should they not take out insurance.

Have I covered myself?

bookworm1363

I doubt it.

Responsability lies with the sender, and it's up to him/her to pursue RM or courrier for their loss.

You can't expect buyer to pay for insurance to cover YOUR liability, I'm afraid.

I see this a lot on e-bay, and it always amaze me that so many people fall for the "not my problem if it gets lost in transit" sentence. I'm afraid it is your problem, not the buyer. I'd be very surprised if e-bay went any other way, not because they "always side with buyer", as god knows they do not, but because it's a question of rights. You remain the owner of the goods until they have reached the person to whom you are selling.

spacenase

Hi,

I'd have to say no. IMHO you have entered a contract to supply goods to the buyer, and that contract is not completed until they receive them. They have not received the goods and so are entitled to their money back. I'd say if they are an experienced e-bayer, then it is less likely that they're scamming you.

With regard to postal insurance, the contract with the Royal Mail is between you and them, not the buyer and the RM. The postal insurance is therefore for your benefit, not the buyer's. If the RM fail to deliver, you should refund the customer for failing to supply what they have bought, and ensure that you can claim back your costs from the RM. It's your responsibility to put in place whatever measures you feel are appropriate to ensure the customer receives the goods and to ensure you get proof when they do. Of course, you can pass on the increased costs to the customer for this.

If you bought goods from a mail order company and didn't receive them, you would expect the company to refund you and would probably threaten legal action if they said no because you had refused to pay postal insurance.

KEITH

mjenn5

I have to say that I agree with both responses above.

It is really up to the seller to ensure that the item gets to the person that has paid for it.

I always send items by a more secure method even if it means I have to pay more for the postage than I asked from the seller.

This is to protect me more and to ensure the item gets the proper treatment and turns up undamaged.

rosysparkle

Paypal will automatically find in your buyer's favour of you cannot provide proof of delivery, as per the user agreement you have with paypal.

If you accept paypal, you must send by a tracked method.

As a powerseller you really should be aware of this! Sorry if that sounds rude, it's not my intention to be rude at all, but the paypal rules are clear.

Graham_Devon

I'm only a powerseller because i sold two cars and went over their monthly budget thing.

Ahh well, seems like I lost out then, again. I had a buyer just a month ago do a chargeback on me because they broke an item and didnt like the fact that they had only bought it a week ago. 1 charge back later and I was down.

Might give up this ebay lark to tell you the truth, its not worth it anymore and I been doing it for about 3 years now. What with fee's scammers and chargebacks! Just not worth the risk.

Cheers for the responses guys. I'll let you know if paypal decide any different! I was just trying to keep the postage low for the buyers and offering the insurance for their own piece of mind.

Know better now!

MyUserNamesTaken

I wouldn't give it up - just don't offer the choice of postage without insurance. That way, they buy knowing the item will be sent by trackable means and you are safe in the eyes of Paypal.

Cat72

Ebay is a very good market place as long as you know what you are doing and abide bythe rules.You yourself said

Shes an experienced ebayer also, as I am

.You took a risk selling two cars if you never knew the way chargebacks etc work. On here we have a lots of great advice about how to keep yourself right- one main rule is sellers are responsable to get items safely to buyer and do so by a trackable payment method.
From another point of view the buyer has paid you good money I am sure they are sitting wondering if you ever sent the item and have not fleeced them ? As you yourself said

with fee's scammers and chargebacks! Just not worth the risk.

How does the buyer not know you arent another scammer ?Look on it from this view too.If you have proof of a trackable method then the buyer at least knows you are honest and usually is more versatile.
Like many people on here I have had items going missing in the post ( i always send recorded then i know the buyer is being honest when they say they have not recieved it). Its a pain but I always refund seller after 15 days of item not recieved and claim chargeback through royal mail ( usually takes a month). And the end I get my fees back from ebay and my money from the royal mail.
Sellers cant expected just to sell on ebay never have anything go wrong . get peoples wads of cash and tell them to get stuffed when things go wrong . Remember as a buyer how do you want to be treated ? then as a seller this is how to treat your buyer.

davilown

Unfortunately you can't prove that it arrived therefore there's no proof of it being sent. Always go a min of recorded delivery.

:beer: monster

alexpeck

No tracking = No protection.
Not having a valid tracking number usually results in a forced refund by PayPal who then chase you for the money.

Graham_Devon

Right, just to follow up, it did go in favour of the buyer. Paypal didnt even ask for my input! Asked me if I had tracking number, I said no, but have proof of postage with postcode, they automatically refunded the buyer.

So I left the buyer neutral feedback, because she had gone against what was said in the ad. She came back and neg'd me, saying I was abusive and a liar. What!? Anyway. Looked through her feedback and out of 280, listing the 200 view, I can see no less than 11 claims, she follows up her feedback and a few of them are neutrals and shes always saying 'buyer didnt like the fact that I claimed via paypal for lost in post item'.

11 things lost in the post?! And thats just what i can figure out from her feedback, i.e. from what people have left and shes responded too. Trouble is, most of them are positive from sales of sim cards and rubbish like that. SO makes her look good.

So, rang up paypal, and told them about this and they said there is nothing they can do or are willing to do as it has now been decided.

How one person has so many items get 'lost' on the way to her is beyond me, and it stinks. In all her e-mails she was stating 'I'm so sorry to do this, this is the first time I have ever had to make a claim'.

Argh! Bet shes looking at the monitor when she's typing to me!