Unenforceability & Template Letters III

never-in-doubt

Hi matey,

send this letter off and see what comes back - attach one page of Miss *****'s document, so they know what you're on about and change the ***'s to her surname lol.....

Dear Mr Morris,

Your Ref: XXXXXXXX
My Ref: XXXXXXXX

I write with reference to your letter dated 22 March 2010 regarding the above numbered account. The content of your letter, being the basis of my reply.

As you will no doubt be aware, I originally requested a copy of the alleged CCA back in July 2009 and have waited patiently for its arrival. As it never came within the required legal parameters, this account became unenforceable under s.127(1) of the CCA1974, and would remain the case until such time as a true copy or original CCA was presented to me.

Eventually I did receive some documents, which was not relevant to the actual request made, i.e. I did not request a copy of an application form; moreso a copy of the alleged consumer credit agreement. To date, this document remains elusive and this account remains both in dispute and unenforceable.

You can sit there and try and quote acts of legislation all day but we both know you aren't really qualified or familiar with this legislation otherwise you'd not be sending me the rubbish you have, purporting to be documents which they are not.

In your letter you go on to remind me that you rely upon the client in the speed it takes to obtain the requested documentation - i'm sorry, but the legislation is quite firm in that it does not matter. Whether I appreciate it or not the fact of the matter remains, you never supplied to me, upon request, what I asked for and therefore you were in direct breach of the Act.

You then go on to try and explain your understanding of the Consumer Credit Act (1974) and the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations (1983), but i'm still at a loss as to why you feel you've actually complied being all you've sent me is an illegible application form - NOT a legally binding Consumer Credit Agreement (Regulated by the CCA1974), which is what I requested originally back in 2009.

Need I remind you, that recent OFT guidance made it quite clear what can and what cannot be used as a "True Copy" and similarly, since the recent test case(s) in Manchester they have also brought out additional guidance that stipulates it is unfair to lead an alleged debtor to believe you have a document that you in fact do not?

You then state you sent variable terms as the account was varied thus resulting in such a change. Are you even familiar with the rules surrounding variable agreements? If so then you'd know full well that in order for you to satisfy your obligation with a variable agreement you should send the original CCA with terms in place at the time of account inception as well as the most recent variable terms. The Act does not allow you to simply omit the originals - far from it.

For your information, the High Court never actually said any of the sort and instead of me explaining this to you, i'd rather suggest you go and familiarise yourself with the recent judgements and learn what really happened instead. Suffice to say, in the McGuffick v RBS case it was deemed that a lender or DCA can report to the credit reference agencies, and nothing more. In the Carey v HSBC {and others} case the verdict was that an original document bearing the signature of both the lender and the customer be presented within or linked within the prescribed terms. So whoever is teaching you this rubbish needs to be spoken to because nowhere in any court in the land has there ever been a judgement that allows a lender or DCA the ability to obtain judgement without the original agreement.

You are fine in sending me a legible copy or reconstituion of the agreement, yes, but you must have the original to take it through the court and it is this document I wish to see. Not a copy, not a reconstitution but the original. If necessary, CPR31.16 can be brought into the equation, somewhat leaving you under jurisdiction to supply the court with any original should it exist.

Isn't it ironic that you should try and teach me about the DPA (1998) - when within the copy statements you sent me, you also attached another customers records which unless i'm mistaken is also a breach of DPA Guidelines - where will this end? Do you guys just keep breaking laws at will, then pretend everything is ok? For your information, the customer thats data I received is called a Miss L *****. I shall be writing to her in due course, with copies of her own paperwork and to see if she will consider reporting you, like I will, unless you agree to walk away.

For the final time, the document you sent, purporting to be a credit agreement, does not contain or link to any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say, all of the required terms are not present in this document. Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states:

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of OFT guidelines. These guidelines (issued July 2003 & updated December 2006) relate to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states;

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:
h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

I require you to produce a compliant copy of the credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt. If you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to the relevant governing authorities.

Since the agreement is unenforceable, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages.

Do not waste my time responding with junk again, all this will be used as evidence against you, should a court hearing be necessary.

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days.

Yours faithfully




Sign digitally

libbyjade

Haha, I never thought for one minute you'd hold any info against me!
Well, I hoped you wouldn't anyway!! :j

Me and my partner have just read your letter mate, we were crying laughing with some of the quotes contained within it. Whoever opens the post will sh*t themselves when they read it and no doubt pass it immediately to their boss and book the rest of the week off with stress in case they get assigned to deal with it!!:rotfl::rotfl:

Can't wait to get this off to the post office on Thursday!! As you maybe aware, I can't send it tomorrow as I won't be in work lol

Thanks again pal, really appreciated as ever!:T

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Mate you know that any info I see is forgotten about pretty much straight away - plus you know the identity of the mysterious Niddy! Eeeek :eek:

Thanks for info - that's all I needed to know, the letter will be done soon matey....

never-in-doubt

libbyjade wrote: »

Me and my partner have just read your letter mate, we were crying laughing with some of the quotes contained within it. Whoever opens the post will sh*t themselves when they read it and no doubt pass it immediately to their boss and book the rest of the week off with stress in case they get assigned to deal with it!!:rotfl::rotfl:

Hi matey - I edited it quite a lot as well, it was a lot more "raw" first time round, they truly are muppets and have no idea of the law, the relevant acts nor of any court cases. They are confusing an isolated case with the McGuffick one which really is ridiculous.... the facts remain, no original - no court judgement.

All you're asking for is an original or a copy of the original, that complies with the CCA and is directly linked to prescribed terms bearing yours and the lenders signatures.

If they cannot or do not have such a document they are in breach of OFT guidance if they do not admit to it.

Simples, see?

never-in-doubt

libbyjade wrote: »

As you maybe aware, I can't send it tomorrow as I won't be in work - and therefore cannot get to use the company printer to get it printed off!! lol

Yes mate I know what you're referring to - but why not give it away with the clue! lol..... maybe you want to edit the post - i've missed the relevant part out of my quote above so easy to find!?

But me, i'd be off to the pub all day - sod it mate! I do like me stella and doner..... :rotfl:

libbyjade

Haha - I like raw too!
I'd have been happy to send your original un-edited version, but this one is great

I'd have loved to have seen some of the letters you had to send the (b)ankers who were threatening you when you were subjected to fraud on your account! :rotfl::rotfl:

I'll post back if/when I hear back from them.:D

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Hi matey - I edited it quite a lot as well, it was a lot more "raw" first time round, they truly are muppets and have no idea of the law, the relevant acts nor of any court cases.

never-in-doubt

libbyjade wrote: »

Haha - I like raw too!
I'd have been happy to send your original un-edited version, but this one is great

I'd have loved to have seen some of the letters you had to send the (b)ankers who were threatening you when you were subjected to fraud on your account! :rotfl::rotfl:

I'll post back if/when I hear back from them.:D

Hmmm, you wouldn't have liked the original version mate - I actually swore in it :rotfl: - inept or what (not me, them!).... it just gets me soo angry that they try and scare people with false and misleading data - then for them to send you someone elses paperwork, well - that's the last straw!

Normally i'd say (as per Maz) ignore them but I felt obliged to respond to that muppet!

Anyway, onwards and upwards mate.... will go on FB later and check you out (so to speak) lol

libbyjade

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Yes mate I know what you're referring to - but why not give it away with the clue! lol..... maybe you want to edit the post - i've missed the relevant part out of my quote above so easy to find!?

But me, i'd be off to the pub all day - sod it mate! I do like me stella and doner..... :rotfl:

Good point mate, now edited. Thanks.

I played golf last time I was off on holiday for 2 days, but need to get the kids tomorrow so can't take up your advice unfortunately! Although I have got sufficient brownie points to get out and watch our game tomorrow night!

Get in!

libbyjade

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Anyway, onwards and upwards mate.... will go on FB later and check you out (so to speak) lol

Not much info on my FB mate, as I mentioned I've never really used it. I did add a few details today and I may upload one or two pics tomorrow. Watch this space lol. btw, you get some holidays in don't you! here's me thinking Niddy's grafting away in work, didn't realise you work in Barbados or somewhere equally as nice :T

Don't feel nearly as sorry for you now. lol

Have a good night matey - thanks again

never-in-doubt

libbyjade wrote: »

Not much info on my FB mate, as I mentioned I've never really used it. I did add a few details today and I may upload one or two pics tomorrow. Watch this space lol. btw, you get some holidays in don't you! here's me thinking Niddy's grafting away in work, didn't realise you work in Barbados or somewhere equally as nice :T

Don't feel nearly as sorry for you now. lol

Have a good night matey - thanks again

LOL mate - I only have 5 holidays a year - it used to be way more than that! Its Cuba and other caribbean places you can see.... looks nice though, empty beach with just us.... heaven!

I never knew you felt sorry for me hehe - I'm a good lad you know.....;);)

roadster

Hi Mate

Another cracking letter, would love to be a fly on the wall whenthat gets opened.

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