Co-OP and the tale of age verification

Zazen999

puppet1984 wrote: »

lets remove id. lets get rid of all the cctv that have solved so many crimes and prevent many more.
The world unfortunately is not full of honest law abiding people who believe in peace.
I wish i could say to someone " excuse me are you over 18?" and that would suffice.
This may be a weird thought but people can lie.
You walk down a street you will probably be on camera somewhere oh no oh my god what an outrage.
lets go back hundreds of years and it was unthinkable the world was round.
Times change,

so if your law abiding and have nothing to hide why would you be afraid of ID cards?

Actually, there is no evidence written or otherwise - that supports this myth that people thought the world was flat. There is a research centre in Cambridge that has sifted through centuries of documents and not one shred of evidence supports this.

This whole 'if you have nothing to hide then why are you afraid of ID cards' is a red herring. No offence, but if people want to get hold of alcohol, they can get mix sugar and yeast with grape juice/fruit tea and make it. Alcohol is a natural result of sugar and yeast fermenting. And why oh why do we try and make the laws to try and control the lowest common denominator? There is nothing outrageous about youngsters consuming alcohol; we've been doing that for centuries [mainly to make water drinkable as the alcohol kills bacteria].

You may well be happy with your benchmark at the lowest it can be; but some of us have standards. As an adult; I'll decide what I buy and consume - thank you very much.

puppet1984

unfortunately although youngsters have been drinking alcohol for years it is infact illegal for them to purchase it from a licensed premises if under the age of 18 rightly or wrongly. which is why if they look like youngsters they must produce ID to proove they are infact of legal age.

where in this thread is anyone telling you what to buy and consume?
if you want to buy and use heroin or any other illegal drug thats your choice but as an adult your liable to prosecution for it.

my whole point in this thread is to try to defend people that are being called "stupid" when infact they are only doing their job.

I don't actually agree with the 18 age limit as you rightly say young people will get their hands on alcohol (i don't quite think by making it themselves). Where they will then probably drink it in an unsupervised enviroment.
All the age limit does is force them onto the streets and make obtaining alcohol more of a challange

Zazen999

puppet1984 wrote: »

unfortunately although youngsters have been drinking alcohol for years it is infact illegal for them to purchase it from a licensed premises if under the age of 18 rightly or wrongly. which is why if they look like youngsters they must produce ID to proove they are infact of legal age.

I am perfectly happy with under or near 18s being asked for ID.

What I take issue with is Think 25 [what's 25 got to do with anything??]; and asking an adult for ID for Tomato Based Pasta Sauce. And then people saying 'what's the problem with asking for ID anyway' - as if it's perfectly reasonable for an adult to have to leave the home with ID when they were going out to buy....a tomato based pasta sauce.

Ludicrous.

peachyprice

puppet1984 wrote: »

unfortunately although youngsters have been drinking alcohol for years it is infact illegal for them to purchase it from a licensed premises if under the age of 18 rightly or wrongly. which is why if they look like youngsters they must produce ID to proove they are infact of legal age.

where in this thread is anyone telling you what to buy and consume?
if you want to buy and use heroin or any other illegal drug thats your choice but as an adult your liable to prosecution for it.

my whole point in this thread is to try to defend people that are being called "stupid" when infact they are only doing their job.

suited-aces wrote: »

Because. It's. The. Law.


Read that slowly. Not too hard to grasp, even stupid shop assistants like myself get it.

Firstly, this thread is about pasta sauce, not alcohol or drugs or underage drinking.

Secondly, I think you'll find the people you are defending are calling themselves stupid.

adouglasmhor

suited-aces wrote: »

No, it's the law that they can't just be randomly handed alcohol at the till by an adult.

Show us?

No thought not.

You just made that up.

adouglasmhor

suited-aces wrote: »

http://www.ias.org.uk/resources/factsheets/law.pdf

I'm not suggesting that the poster who couldn't get her son to carry the bag was trying to "supply him", but just that it falls under that law. I don't like it either tbh, but it's what we gotta do.

From your link

Protection of Children and Young People
It was made an offence by the Licensing Act 1902 for any person to be found drunk
•
on any highway, public house, licensed premise, public place, building or inn while
having charge of a child under 7.
No intoxicating liquor may be administered to a child under five years of age except
•
under medical supervision or in the case of sickness or other urgent cause.(Children
Act 1908)

marleyboy

puppet1984 wrote: »

You are not forced to carry ID by law but if you appear to be under the age of what ever the shop/pub's policy is under 30 in some places and you don't have ID it will be you that is inconvenienced.
Unfortunately the pasta sauce asked the shop assistant to ID you so they did you didn't have an acceptable form of ID in line with the shops policy.
while its stupid to be asked for ID for pasta sauce i still don't understand why people have such an issue with carrying ID.

Some quotes from people attempting to gain entry to a nightcub but not having ID
"You've ruined my night": Bring ID your night wouldn' of been ruined
"I'm Over 18": ok where is the proof?
"I have a credit card": Wow does it included your picture and date of birth.

You know that if your caught serving alcohol to a person under the age of 18 on 2 occasions within a 3 month period you can be in a whole heap of trouble.
So a licensed premises is not going to worry about a lost sale more about losing their license hence the strict and sometimes even downright stupid rules.

Completely irrelevant post, one might assume someone entering a Nightclub or buying alcohol HAS the relevant ID, to purchase such a "restricted" item as alcohol, or indeed to enter a licensed premises, this is a legal requirement.

What you are completely omitting in this case, is the purchaser is NEITHER entering a nightclub NOR buying any alcohol, indeed the customer is not buying ANYTHING that is classed as a "restricted sale", there is no law that exists to say buying a chicken sauce is either "restricted" or an illegal purchase to someone under 18.

Whatever a persons reasons for not wishing to carry ID, (another legal entitlement in this Country), one would assume they do not need any ID to buy cooking sauce, a till may not be clever enough to distinguish between a "chicken in wine sauce" or a "bottle of white wine", by merely comparing the word "Wine" to "legal age restriction", but if the tiller cannot distinguish the difference between the two, they should not be working a till.

This is Miles apart from attempting to enter a nightclub or buy a pint at a bar, where you would expect to have ID available.

Some people do not have the relevant ID (passport and driving license), I imagine their nights being ruined at a club is a regular event, whether or not they are of legal age. Its quite possibly expected that they will struggle trying to buy a bottle of Whisky from a supermarket. But a "Chicken Sauce"?

My passport is locked away in a safe at home, safe from the risk of being stolen, I carry my Driving License with me, but I can assure you it is not for the purpose of buying Brandy Schnapps, Rum n Raisin Ice Cream or Chicken Wine Sauce. So much so that were I asked to produce it for such items, I would refuse, heck I might even tell them I have ID but choose not to show it, if it means me doing without it, I can simply go elsewhere to buy them, whether or not it they class it as "just one sale".

How far are they prepared to go with this? "Sorry Sir but you might be buying that Chicken Sauce for your underage Son accompanying you"............."Thats right, including his Mum and younger Sisters, feel free to report this to the authorities".

Gers

Can I just explain again that buying alcohol for those aged under 18 years for consumption in their own home is NOT illegal. It's only illegal to adminster alcohol to those aged under 5 years except in a medical emergency - as at least 2 posters have explained.

As for pasta sauce -complete madness!

Children under 5 must not be given alcohol unless under medical supervision or in an emergency (Children and Young Persons Act 1933, Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act 1937) However, children aged 5 and over may legally consume alcohol in their own or someone else's home as long as they have permission from an adult.

The minimum age for the purchase of alcohol is 18. People aged 16 or 17 may consume wine, beer or cider on licensed premises (pubs/bars/restaurants) with a table meal. In England & Wales, an adult must order. In Scotland, no adult is required to be present. The legal age for the purchase of alcohol from an off-licence (store/supermarket) is 18 (The legal age to buy liqueur chocolates is 16 (however this is rarely enforced)).

Under the BBPA's Challenge 21 scheme, customers attempting to buy alcoholic beverages are asked to prove their age if in the retailer's opinion they look under 21, even though they are only 18. Many supermarket and off-licence chains display Challenge 21 notices stating that they will not serve persons who look under 21 without ID.

There is also a new "Challenge 25" scheme being rolled out in some parts of England.

Purchasing alcohol on behalf of a minor is illegal in Scotland, England and Wales. This means acting as the young person's agent.

oldone_2

puppet1984 wrote: »

so if your [sic] law abiding and have nothing to hide why would you be afraid of ID cards?

That old chestnut. If I have nothing to hide why should I have to prove it to petty officials and shop assistants that start with the presumption that I am guilty and must therefore prove my innocence.

We are seeing the dismantling of a thousand years of struggle that once allowed the citizens of this country to move around unhindered and without every move being watched.

adouglasmhor

oldone wrote: »

That old chestnut. If I have nothing to hide why should I have to prove it to petty officials and shop assistants that start with the presumption that I am guilty and must therefore prove my innocence.

We are seeing the dismantling of a thousand years of struggle that once allowed the citizens of this country to move around unhindered and without every move being watched.

I loved how someone who has 1984 in their username uses a clichë atributed to a Mr Joseph Stalin. They really don't get Irony