Please help re flat deposit

-monky-

clutton wrote:

whip round - count me in !!!!!

ditto.

don't give up now - you've come so far. Edna is right - don't be put off by their words, it's all talk. They are more than likely bricking themselves for acting in an unprofessional manner. They don't want you to take them to court because they are scared of losing not only the case, but more importantly the effect it will have on their reputation.

Just take a step outside the situation and look at this from the LA's and LL's
point of view. You have covered yourself at every corner. They have been unhelpful and uncaring. They pretty much have no leg to stand on. They even tried scaring you with costs - they can't make you pay costs! [Aside: Even when costs are awarded in a case, it's exactly that they are awarded by the court not decided by the defendant!]

Regarding your contract, I would like to point out that if the contract is not within the law, it's not worth the paper it's written on. For example, when I was a tenant we signed a contract with something about being responsible for cleaning our outside drains or gutters or something. When it came to it, we were informed that it wasn't our responsibility - even though we signed, it cannot be upheld because it was legally the LL's responsibility. So where the letting agent is concerned, they are legally required to act within the law when handling the deposit. Now I don't know a lot about this but the fact that it's a deposit means they are holding it in trust for YOU. Let the court decide - they will see sense!

Finally, with regard to the baliffs - they will screw her. They will add all sorts of their own fees on top of the fee they are collecting - legally. And in addition (according to that undercover (BBC?) documentary a few months ago) they will more than likely add on a bunch of extra "costs" for themselves personally, (and not so legally). If I recall, one baliff was quoted as describing himself as "a legal theif". Now I don't condone that, but it's out of your control how exactly the baliffs act, isn't it?!

clutton_2

EL - i can undertstand that you are feeling despondent with all the time and effort this has cost you, and its Christmas, and you must be feeling fedup with trying to start a new business -...... but PLEASE dont give up - there must be someone here from Brighton who can go door knocking for you ? I'm the other end of the country else i'd be round there like a shot for you !!

Take the next legal step and just keep on reading MSE !!!! - you will be able to write an e-book on court procedure when this is all finished - and you will be able to sell it to your new customers when THEIR customers renege on contracts - look how much money that could make you !!! there is always a silver lining

A judge will also read the contract with regard to the Fair Terms issues, and will look at it from your point of view also.

xx

bw

clutton

Mrs_pbradley936

EagerLearner wrote:

Thanks everyone - still feeling very fuzzy and trying to see the light - we looked at our contract with the agent a while ago and it IS crap - basically says the deposit will be returned to the landlady if she so sees fit, they are 'agents on behalf of the landlord' rather than the kind of agent that keep the money until both parties are satisfied.

My feeling is that they will say just that - 'we were doing our job, the landlady presented all receipts for the works, therefore we returned her deposit as we are agents for her'. They owe us no obligation to help or act on OUR behalf, the b******s!

Plus they said in no uncertain terms that if we did take them to court we would pay all their legal fees. I don't think we have a leg to stand on with them as the contract is so in their favour and the landlords' favour.

As you know I am not a lawyer and I may be totally wrong BUT when I was taking my sons’ landlord to Court he had contract that was termed a “Sham Tenancy” basically the landlord had written things in it that he could not legally enforce because tenants have basic rights that cannot be denied even if they have signed a piece of paper. In this case the landlord did not realise that his contract was not legal – he just assumed that if he put something in it and the tenant signed it he could do it. Not so, but in your case you are dealing with professionals and if they are handing out Sham tenancies here there and everywhere they must face the consequences.

-monky-

pbradley936 wrote:

As you know I am not a lawyer and I may be totally wrong BUT when I was taking my sons’ landlord to Court he had contract that was termed a “Sham Tenancy” basically the landlord had written things in it that he could not legally enforce because tenants have basic rights that cannot be denied even if they have signed a piece of paper. In this case the landlord did not realise that his contract was not legal – he just assumed that if he put something in it and the tenant signed it he could do it. Not so, but in your case you are dealing with professionals and if they are handing out Sham tenancies here there and everywhere they must face the consequences.

this is what i was trying to say but you put it much clearer :T

EagerLearner

Thanks everyone - however in terms of the contract, ARLA already told me that if the agents are acting on the landlord's behalf (as opposed to agents who hold the deposit for both sides) they CAN just give her back the money as and when she & they see fit. It isn't an illegal contract from that point of view.

Plus, the letting agent have given us her most recent address, they have not withheld it.

Given that a) they seemingly had a right to give her back the deposit having seen her receipts and b) they have given us her latest address, how have we got enough to take them to court?

I still see it as wrong that they gave her the deposit back knowing we disputed it, but our opinion vs what letting agents can actually do in that situation is very different.

Wondering if I should fax them and say the court date has been set for 13th December and we will be attending and expecting them to attend unless they are aware of the landlord already having advised them she is going to pay?

Mrs_pbradley936

Yes you can still go because you took out the summons ages ago and they have only just stared to be civil to you. Would they have been so had they not had a Court action pending? Go for the hell of it, even if you just hear the judge say he sides with them at least they will have to go and explain it all to you and the judge. Anyway he might side with you.

clutton_2

The 2004 Housing Act (which has been coming into force for nearly 2 years now) incorporates a Tenant Deposit dispute procedure which will deal with situations exactly like this. This procedure is not yet in place administratively, HOWEVER, the principle is still enshrined in law - that deposits need to be protected from this type of rapacious landlady. The Judge may well take the view that the LA should have held onto the Deposit as there was a dispute going on. EL dont try to second guess what the court will do. IF you do go to court, and i strongly advise you to, mention this as part of your defence and part of your understanding of the whole deposit thing - there has been virtually no public publicity about the fact that this part of the Act is still not set up administratively, so, how were you to know ?

ARLA represents the "other side" in this dispute - of course they will have told them that. You are representing yourself, and the judge is the arbiter between the two of you. Dont let LA/ARLA bully you anymore !!!!!!

EagerLearner

Thanks all. I have written a loooooooooong e-mail to Argus and hope to hear from them this week - with any luck they will be able to help, or something - at the moment, I'll settle for 'something' rather than nothing!

So if we do have our day in court with the letting agents, and if they hire a solicitor, won't we be liable to pay those fees if the judge awards in the letting agents favour?

I am about to download the property deeds for her latest address, maybe it will show more info.

furndire

Did you mention the MSE site, whoever gets you letter would probably have a jolly good read - and realise how many people are interested in your saga. I posted many threads ago, but have not commented lately, but I do read the thread every day to see what has happened. Carry on the good work. As someone said earlier by the time you end this, you'll be able to write a book. All the best

EagerLearner

Thanks Furndire - I can't tell you how much it means to know there are so many people on here behind us & willing us to win!

I suppose if I mention this thread to the Argus they will read the good, the bad and the ugly times - don't know if they will take any notice though? I suppose it is a log of sorts.

I downloaded 2 x title dees for the 'latest' address we have 5 mins ago - neither mention landladys name, so no movement on that side. I think this is because IF she has moved and IF she owns this property, then it won't show up on registers for a while.

However, she may just be renting it and living there - but I doubt this very much - she owns so many properties - why would she then go and rent for herself?

I am reluctant to give this address to the courts given a) we have no real evidence she has moved and b) she has not yet returned unopened the court judgement letter recently sent out (in our favour).

Plus in my searches just now, I discovered the address we were given was not quite accurate - had an extra line that seems to be a hybrid of 2 roads closeby!