Friend keeps looking what I am buying...

rdwarr

Moglex wrote:

How can it be morally wrong?

The seller can set any price they like as a starting price. Shill bidding is just a way of doing that in a manner that deprives fleabay of some listing fee.

I think you've answered your own question there
If you enter into a contract with eBay and then try to rip them off then it's morally wrong.

frivolous_fay

My problem with shilling is that it creates the appearance of false demand.

Essentially a seller who shills is lying to his customers about what the item is worth... and how much demand there is for it.

frivolous_fay

Would you take up a second chance offer for an item that had been shilled? Would I? NFW!

Moglex

rdwarr wrote:

I think you've answered your own question there
If you enter into a contract with eBay and then try to rip them off then it's morally wrong.

Well, ebay seem to be quite happy to rip people off right left and centre and are quite big and ugly enough to look after their own interests.

I actually meant, apart from depriving poor struggling ebay inc, I can't see what's morally wrong.

Moglex

frivolous_fay wrote:

My problem with shilling is that it creates the appearance of false demand.

Essentially a seller who shills is lying to his customers about what the item is worth... and how much demand there is for it.

Well, yes, that's true, but what sort of an idiot buys something just because someone else wants it?

Possibly the reason I can't see much wrong with shilling from the buyer's pov is that it will only affect people who are using completely illogical ways to determine what they will bid for and how much they'll bid.

Plus, of course, the shiller is quite likely to win the item and end up paying fleabay fees for nothing!

rdwarr

Morality is all relative. Different people will draw the line at different places.
If it's not morally wrong to defraud eBay then is it morally wrong to shoplift from Tesco? If that's alright then is it OK to mug a successful businessman? Or his wife?
Somewhere in that lot you will have drawn your own line

frivolous_fay

Moglex wrote:

Well, yes, that's true, but what sort of an idiot buys something just because someone else wants it?

No shortage of idiots on ebay! If you thought 10 other people had their eye on an item, wouldn't you feel really chuffed with yourself if you won it? You might think it was rarer, and more desirable. and more valuable than it really is. (or perhaps just an idiot might)

Moglex wrote:

Possibly the reason I can't see much wrong with shilling from the buyer's pov is that it will only affect people who are using completely illogical ways to determine what they will bid for and how much they'll bid.

It affects those with poor bidding technique, I'll grant you. Although arguably it has affected many of us 'clever' folk too - if you don't care if you're being shilled, would you go looking for the warning signs?

Moglex wrote:

Plus, of course, the shiller is quite likely to win the item and end up paying fleabay fees for nothing!

Only stupid shillers. Sadly in shorter supply than stupid bidders

Ditto

Have you checked to see if the person who set your computer up has installed a keylogger, and now knows ALL your details/passwords?

Moglex

rdwarr wrote:

Morality is all relative. Different people will draw the line at different places.
If it's not morally wrong to defraud eBay then is it morally wrong to shoplift from Tesco? If that's alright then is it OK to mug a successful businessman? Or his wife?
Somewhere in that lot you will have drawn your own line

As I said, I was refering to morality of the behaviouras it affected the bidders, so that question does not really arise - at least in my case (plus, I don't sell on fleabay).

As to others, yes they would each have to draw their own line.

Everyone has their line. If you find £100 do you had it in to the police? £50? £10? £5?, £1?

I'm not saying I think it's good behaviour, just that it should be a very small problem in the general scheme of things. There's far worse being done by buyers, sellers and ebay itself many times a day as witnessed by the posts on this very forum.

Moglex

frivolous_fay wrote:

If you thought 10 other people had their eye on an item, wouldn't you feel really chuffed with yourself if you won it?

Actually no.

My enjoyment at winning something is always tempered by feeling sorry for those who lost. I know what it feels like, after all.