Prohibited right turn on CCTV

peter_the_piper

I've still got my doubts on the wording" Must be paid before the end of the period of 28days beginning with the date of this notice" (ie 3rd March when it should be 2nd)
Does this not give inaccurate time to pay? Please correct me if I am wrong as I'd like to get it right.

missile

flyingscotno1 wrote: »

I disagree. You say the signs are clear, I don't think they are. Whilst there is a case for seeing the no right turn sign and simply following that, the plate below has far too much information for driver to take in at speed and a drivers attention is focused on a crossing not a sign at that point..

You could make the same point that bus lane signs which are qualified by time are difficult to read at speed. I would suggest that one should not be executing a right hand turn "at speed" and the signage is adequate.

The OP failed to notice the sign not once, but several times.:o

flyingscotno1

missile wrote: »

You could make the same point that bus lane signs which are qualified by time are difficult to read at speed. I would suggest that one should not be executing a right hand turn "at speed" and the signage is adequate.

The OP failed to notice the sign not once, but several times.:o

How can you make a right turn if you are not going at speed? At speed can be 10/15/20mph you know!

We have books of approved signage to stick by for good reason. Signs need to be easy to read and the longer the message and quicker the traffic the bigger the letters (x-height) and signs need to be.

Bus lane signs are pictures, days and times- repeated at least once before the start of the lane in case you miss them and repeatedly throughout the length.

That sign requires you to understand its nonsense with 'no vehicles' the bus exception and a time making it much harder to understand than an approved bus lane sign. Not to mention the positioning on the left hand side only, and in the controlled area behind a pedestrian crossing where drivers attention is often focused on other things.

I'm very curious as to why do you say the signage is adequate when TSRGD limits the plates to a few words.

missile

flyingscotno1 wrote: »

How can you make a right turn if you are not going at speed? At speed can be 10/15/20mph you know!

Maybe you did not notice the traffic lights either? :rotfl:
OP travels this route regularly and perhaps she will confirm how many times she has been stopped and whether she had ample time time read the sign.

I'm very curious as to why do you say the signage is adequate when TSRGD limits the plates to a few words.

The sign is adequate, there is a BIG :eek: no right turn sign. I would suggest, if she could not see / read / understand the text underneath then she should not have turned right. OP travels this route regularly and after the fifth (or tenth?) time she ought to have been able to see / read / understand. As has already been stated, I do not judge the OP. None of us are perfect even those who are employed to design traffic signs :A

Bus lane signs are pictures, days and times- repeated at least once before the start of the lane in case you miss them and repeatedly throughout the length.

Imho it can be very diffificult to read bus lane signs and I know of some where it is not repeated. Too late if you depend on signs being repeated along the lane, as you may have already been photographed then you can expect a fine in the post.

plum24

In one sense perhaps you are correct, i should have noticed the sign, however believe me many, many cars take that turn just as i did every morning... can it be that so many people at one time choose to simply ignore the 'rules' and risk numerous £60 fines... i very much doubt it, it would seem more likely that the signage is so poor that people are just not seeing it... just as i didnt.
I apologise if people feel that i am not taking responsibility for my actions, but as i stated: I made a mistake... hands up who has never done that before!!
If my appeals come to nothing then i will obviously pay the fines, I am not completely ignorant... and believe it or not am usually a law-abiding citizen, however i cant see what harm it does to challenge these people, who seem to perform acts of daylight robbery without any consequences at all!
Plum

missile

Thanks plum, I can fully understand how you were caught out.

As I said earlier, I was caught out doing a similar thing myself and I wish you success in avoiding paying the fines.

R0bert_Sterling

Seems a load of old nonsense to me.

I can quite clearly see the standard "No Right Turn" sign.

That is enough for me to understand I am not allowed to turn right at the next junction.

Are you guys suggesting that because I didn't have time to read the text underneath it, then I should ignore the "No Right Turn" sign and simply turn right anyway??
Just pretend the sign never existed?


"Not my fault M'Laud, I couldn't read all of the sign so I am allowed to ignore the whole lot".

I would guess that sign is there as that is a busy road in the mornings so a queue waiting to turn soon become an obstruction to all the traffic trying to go straight on. Most likely there for the greater good of all road users.

Crazy perspective but good luck with your little notebooks of regulations.

Coupon-mad

Ooooh there are a lot of critical posters on this thread!

To the OP, I suspect if you appeal this all the way to adjudicator the Council will quite probably fold before the hearing. If you read similar threads on pepipoo you'll see a pattern - a Council have confusing signs & lines but they reject appeals - but then pull out before adjudication.

Keep the faith and post a copy of the front & back of your PCN on pepipoo.com if you haven't already, they will help you word your appeals:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

HTH

plum24

Thanks Coupon-mad, i have been posting on pepipoo and they have said pretty much the same thing, and funnily enough i recived a message from a guy today who's girlfriend has recieved three pcns for the same thing on the same road...

To the rest, i felt i could come on here for advice as i have in the past, unfortunetly there are people who have nothing better to do than criticise others and try to put them done, but hey each to their own, im sure when you need advice you will oneday do the same, i hope others will treat you with a little more respect.

Take care.
Plum

flyingscotno1

R0bert_Sterling wrote: »

Seems a load of old nonsense to me.

I can quite clearly see the standard "No Right Turn" sign.

That is enough for me to understand I am not allowed to turn right at the next junction.

Are you guys suggesting that because I didn't have time to read the text underneath it, then I should ignore the "No Right Turn" sign and simply turn right anyway??
Just pretend the sign never existed?


"Not my fault M'Laud, I couldn't read all of the sign so I am allowed to ignore the whole lot".

I would guess that sign is there as that is a busy road in the mornings so a queue waiting to turn soon become an obstruction to all the traffic trying to go straight on. Most likely there for the greater good of all road users.

Crazy perspective but good luck with your little notebooks of regulations.

No what I am saying is that councils have to play fair too. The OP has performed an manoeuvre that by that sign is not allowed. Had they not done it then no issues and that is accepted, I think by everyone. I'm not saying the sign should be ignored, but for enforcement it is dubious until things are cleared up- two different things.

I work in roads but not this aspect day to day. Signs are designed to make sure roads are safe, but signage should thus be consistent and easy to understand. That is why things are set in stone and if you want something different and legal it is a headache.

It is also why I get annoyed when I see signs like this- fair enough mistakes happen (indeed I think they've stuck up a plate for a 'no vehicles access sign' given the confusing message which then would make sense!) but it should also be checked before enforcement commences. Now if it turns out that it has authorisation the OP is bang to rights. I'd still feel it is a poor design and there are alternative ways of signing it and that should have been done to make it even clearer.

As an aside things like this sign which states you can turn right sometimes but not at other times have often been criticised and not permitted as they can reduce the overall effectiveness of the sign. If people are allowed to ignore it at times at some junctions it weakens the overall message of the no right/left turn sign and they try it elsewhere where it may cause a serious problem. That is why I have a beef about it.

Oh and believe me, not being able to read a whole sign clearly and thus ignoring it has been used in courts before- even on obvious things.