Weezl's phase 1- recipe testing and frugalisation- come one, come all!

Allegra

weezl74 wrote: »

we don't yet have an easy recipe booklet/webpage/mega index on here/googledocs/windowslive that we can hold the shopping list, planner and recipes so the month 1 testers can easily find them. Lesley has looked a lot at this. Current snag-a tester family/person would need to be happy with giving their email address to a stranger, which is obviously not ideal if people prefer not to. We can work round this by asking people to create a new email account with a new provider ie Yahoo if you currently use hotmail) but this is a bit of a faff. Also we can't upload everything we want to in the way we want to to the windows live environment. Also I suspect that the way I've written that last paragraph has put a lot of people off because I've mentioned technologies you haven't even heard of.

Okay, I'm a Luddite at heart, and a pencil-and-paper girl by choice (not even pen, you may note - pencil is better, cos it rubs out ), but I do understand that all this new fangled technology thingummy has its place, especially when it comes to all the background project-managing stuff that you and Lesley are currently beavering away at. I have even been known to use a spreadsheet myself, when I absolutely couldn't help it.

However. I really can not see why it's not possible to simply type out all the info relevant to all the Bob and Shirley stand-ins on here into a post, or a number of them linked together in the initial post of a diary thread. Just the basics - here is your shopping list, here is your list of meals, here are the recipes, off you go. That's pretty much the sum total of what your average Bob'n'Shirl will be interested in.

Besides, there are other clear advantages to doing it that way - you are opening it up to every single individual who reads MSE, regardless of whether they are even registered to post; you are reaching out to everyone, regardless of whether they want to talk to you, or any of us

Makes sense at all ?

SusanC_2

weezl74 wrote: »

Examples of the type of thing might be, how does the balsamic vinegar listed in the USDA food database compare with this stuff

that we're thinking of using for the vegan planner. Is that making any sense? I'm off to bed now in a tired stupor so possibly not :rotfl:

Can you tell me exactly what it is in the picture please? I can't see it clearly enough to tell.

ceridwen wrote: »

I did read research some time back - think it might have been with babies?? - which indicated that, left to themselves (before they started to get fed all the wrong things) and they would automatically reach for the right food that they needed at that point. I've never had children myself - so havent had the chance to see if thats correct or no...but it sounded feasible to me - ie the idea that we have to be "trained" in the wrong ways by food manufacturers to choose their unhealthy products.

That's very interesting. (Although I think my daughter would eat bananas all day if I let her.)

ceridwen wrote: »

So - basically all round - I would pretty much go with what SusanC says - sounds like we have a very similar definition of "hard nut"....and certainly very much agree with seeing sugar as just sweetening and only one of various possibilities for that. I am puzzled by the idea of using sugar for the sake of making up calories towards that 1800? per day for a woman and 2,000 or so (cant recall exact figure) for a man. I wouldnt want to see a plan that says "okay - 1500 of your calories per day will be food and the rest will be made up from sugar to bring you to that 1800 or whatever figure". There are some prices too high to pay - and the subsequent possible health effects of using sugar for calories if that went on for long....eeekkk!

Is part of the reason for using sugar for calories the cost? Or is it just what everyone else normally does anyway? When I was in sixth form I typically had around 3000-3500 calories a day (I did a lot of sport) without eating anything high in refined sugar like cakes or adding sugar to any of my food so I would have thought figures around 2000 should be fairly easy to acheive.

Sian_the_Green wrote: »

I admire you Ceridwen, and SusanC that you are following your ideals so closely but am really wary of this plan being added on to the £100 a month plan as I think it may totally terrify Shirley and Bob if they are trying to get their family out of debt, which we have discussed to be hideously detrimental to their health and then we suggest that they are slowly killing their children with additives and, as you put it "r***y brek"and sugar. It just smacks a little too much of more things to leave them in their pit of despair; "even if I follow Weezl's plan, look how I am still failing my family, why bother". I just don't want that to happen. I know that you care deeply about these things but our demographic is so different from you in the main that I don't want them to feel alienated, it makes me uneasy. :eek:

That is a very good point and I don't think I can give a coherent answer but I'll write out a few thoughts. Planner one is probably healthier than what Bob and Shirley currently eat so if they go for it then they are improving on their diet anyway and therefore the £100/month thing isn't having an adverse effect on their diet. There are loads of things which people know aren't the best for them but they still eat them anyway (e.g. most people know that sugar isn't that good for you but they still choose to have it). If Bob and Shirley see planner four, these are the possible thoughts I might expect them to have:

• I don't believe in the health benefits of plan 4 therefore I'll go for plan 1.
• I don't believe the health benefits of plan 4 are significant enough to worry about so I'll go for plan 1.
• I believe in the health benefits of plan 4 but not enough to be willing to spend that much more money.
• I believe in the health benefits of plan 4 but I think the health benefits of getting out of debt would outweigh them so I'll go for plan 1.
• I believe in the health benefits of plan 4 but think that as a diet/lifestyle it is too weird for me anyway.
• I believe in the health benefits of plan 4 and think that even though it will cost more than plan 1, the health benefits are worth it to me so I will use plan 4.

I'm thinking the kind of Bob and Shirley who would go for plan 4 would be those who are already tending to eat in that kind of way and aren't willing to make the dietary changes necessary (such as using sugar, white flour and ready brek) to be able to use plan 1 but still want to save money.

I do think though that how it is labelled must be well thought through such that it doesn't have the effect you described and it is definitely a good point which you have brought up.

weezl74 wrote: »

thanks all for the UHT thoughts, I've gone back now to my original sources on the homemade cheese (took a while to find the linkies:o) I think the rule to use UHT was about killing the bacteria (ie listeria) which if the cheese is not to be consumed immediately the whey has dried away, will begin to multiply even if in the fridge. This is why pregnant women are advised to avoid soft cheeses. Those soft cheeses have already been ultra heat treated and yet listeria is still a risk. HM paneer cheese if eaten immediately is ok but I would be concerned about even a few days of delay, especially if shirley (who we are defining as pre-menopausal) and or Jenny (who is post-menarche- we've already built that into what we're trying to accomodate) could theoretically be pregnant.

I would not feel comfortable with saying that this was a baseline healthy planner and include a HM cheese made with not treated to a high temperature milk. And that is why I raised it when we were discussing 'what types of processing are acceptable?'.

To summarise: Because I think I haven't expressed that very well: since I want to deliver a baseline healthy planner, how can I achieve UHT milk in a way which satisfies the no/little processed foods non-negotiable. So that question would need to be included in the survey.

I can't comment on how high the risk of Listeria is but perhaps one way around this would be to put an either/or option with information about the risk of Listeria such that whoever is using it can make their own informed decision. Either that or do it for regular milk but advise to heat treat with reasoning and instructions given.

weezl74 wrote: »

possible extra researching task for susan, as well as the balsamic, can you maybe investigate a suggestable swap for the sweetcorn which appears in the fritters and the spanish omelette and a soup.

I'd need it to be a great match for price, okish for nutrition and a good match for ease/ niceness to tate within the recipes it appears in, if that makes any sense?

Is this an alternative for another planner because there is a reason not to use sweetcorn or is it just to give people alternatives within the meal planner in case they don't like sweetcorn?

In_Search_Of_Me

Dentist was indeed :eek: but must be done! Had good sleep ta and will have a snooze in a mo!
Re comment I made wasnt a criticism of you...would be good to know for bob and shirls what still needs to be tested and will do what I can with that!
Re format could there not be a separate thread on here when it "rolls out" containing meal planner etc?
Arty glad its not just me! Am concious that I am a bear with little brain and due to life circumstances its more easily confused at the moment as too many muddles in there..
Lesley a litte birdy tells me you are good with gardening..can you tell me if I can plant the desiree pots that have chitted or should I just eat em quick?!!
Ta!

weezl74

SusanC wrote: »

Can you tell me exactly what it is in the picture please? I can't see it clearly enough to tell.

SusanC wrote: »

sorry susan! Try this linkie

Is this an alternative for another planner because there is a reason not to use sweetcorn or is it just to give people alternatives within the meal planner in case they don't like sweetcorn?

I was aware that arty (and I think phizzimum?)doesn't like sweetcorn! I wanted to offer a swap

Also I think the process of how we look for a swap is important. If we write about how we've done it for sweetcorn, then we've shown shirley how to do it for her family.:)

poohbear59

Hi, I have been AWOL again, another horrible virus but feel ready to continue testing.

I looked at the windows live thingy but wasn't sure what its purpose is.

Have you got any recipes that need testing in the next couple of days?

Oh, and happy birthday for yesterday, it was DS1's b'day too! We had a special meal of HM Mexican food and chocolate cake too:)

ETA I have just found out that there is a stuffing recipe needing testing if anyone can find it for me please?

frugalmumof4

hi, i have only just come back on the board and spotted this amazing thread, as i have only got through the first 2 pages of the thread, can anyone tell me if there is a vegetarian months meal planner and shopping list on here, or is it just the linky to the 31 day plan that is posted?
I would love to join in!

Lesley_Gaye

In_Search_Of_Me wrote: »

Lesley a litte birdy tells me you are good with gardening..can you tell me if I can plant the desiree pots that have chitted or should I just eat em quick?!!
Ta!

My Dad grew potatoes every year and he always used whatever potatoes Mum had bought, never special seed ones. So yes, you can grow your desiree pots.

I have just put some in pots, I did use seed ones, but that was because I wanted to try particular types.

If you have sprouty pots, you can still eat them if you want to, just make sure to cut out the sprouty part

shanks77

Ok results for the stuffing
Cooked as per recipe on BBC food guide but i made it for 2 not 8 and didnt use the sausages.
Came out nice a bit more like the topping on a crumble than what i was expecting after reading the recipe. But had a lovely lemony taste. I didnt have fresh herbs in (and neither do B&S do they) so i used dried basil and parsley and that worked fine.
Easy mixture to make (could tell Shirley to just grate the bread if she didnt want to faff with the food processor only takes a few mins and if she is using dried herbs then it is not really necessary) and i cooked it in the oven for the last 20mins of cooking time with the chicken. I served the chicken with mash, gravy and sweetcorn. Tasty and filling
HTH xx

weezl74

shanks77 wrote: »

Ok results for the stuffing
Cooked as per recipe on BBC food guide but i made it for 2 not 8 and didnt use the sausages.
Came out nice a bit more like the topping on a crumble than what i was expecting after reading the recipe. But had a lovely lemony taste. I didnt have fresh herbs in (and neither do B&S do they) so i used dried basil and parsley and that worked fine.
Easy mixture to make (could tell Shirley to just grate the bread if she didnt want to faff with the food processor only takes a few mins and if she is using dried herbs then it is not really necessary) and i cooked it in the oven for the last 20mins of cooking time with the chicken. I served the chicken with mash, gravy and sweetcorn. Tasty and filling
HTH xx

Hiya shanks, thanks so much for doing the testing even though you have been having a rough day. I'm sorry to read about the row, conflicts can be very unsettling I think

great feedback I wonder if you can also please say whether you think a quarter of the recipe you did would streeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch that half chicken a really long way? ie did it take up a nice amount of the plate and make things look more substantial?

thank you

weezl74

frugalmumof4 wrote: »

hi, i have only just come back on the board and spotted this amazing thread, as i have only got through the first 2 pages of the thread, can anyone tell me if there is a vegetarian months meal planner and shopping list on here, or is it just the linky to the 31 day plan that is posted?
I would love to join in!

hello and welcome glad you'd like to do testing :T:T:T

planner 2 is about a month away from readiness, but in the meantime there are quite a few recipes which are vegetarian and frugal: all the versions of the delia onion tart, a risi e bisi, the bean curry, pea and apple soup, apple curd and so on.

Any testing you're willing to do is fab