Weezl's phase 1- recipe testing and frugalisation- come one, come all!

Lesley_Gaye

weezl74 wrote: »

ISOM, BOB and ceridwen you are forbidden to comment on the above sentence even though I know you are itching to.

oooh, you are so naughty! he he

kezlou

Hi everyone, glad to see you back weezl, your photo is so cute of fergus and kester

I've been attempting to make more snacks, and i have major complaints from both of my DS's (aged 9 and 6yrs) as well as DH. Apparently i need to make LESS sweet snacks i.e cakes and MORE savoury. So based on meal planner for carrot cake and weetabix cake it would be too sweet, (children's words). We hardly ever eat cakes, and i always reduce the amount of sugar on recipes,i.e something say 200g i always put in less then half.

Starting from this week i will attempt to make / try more savoury recipes, if they are successful i will post them for you.
My internet connection has been going on and off so i haven't been able to come on.
Going to print the recipes now off the front page and try them out on the family. Obviously i have trict budget so anything extra to buy make have to be put back till next time i go shopping or catch stretch it buy.
Lesley the meals look lush, definitely going to try the sweet potato soup recipe.

My plan for today is to make some bread sticks, more bread (as we've ran out ) and have a go at the tart and pasta dishes this week.

Lesley_Gaye

ariarnia wrote: »

Basically, if I'm cooking thing's I've never tried before I want something I can take into the kitchen with me and I find one page of bumph that I can look at and work through more reassuring in paper form.

While there's no reason that the resource itself can't be on a website, having a downloadable (or easy copy paste laid out) step by step - now you do this - style thing which is downloadable (for either use at home as B&S haven't renewed their broadband package and are accessing the page from work or a public place, or because S doesn't have a laptop to take into the kitchen and get covered in flour) would be good.

I mean, on a fundamental level, why do people still buy cookery books when all the recipes are available online somewhere anyway?

Yes, I think it all has to be mega clear. Our target population are the people who may never have cooked or budgeted very well so need things clearly laid out step by step.

Once B&S have found us by whatever means, I think the very first thing they need to see is what they are seeing.

As an analyst, when I was writing systems, I had to take a top down (jargon, sorry) approach which would work well for this project. This approach means that you get increasing levels of detail as you drill down through the project. It would be of little relevance for instance to B&S to see a recipe for Apple Curd before they know if they are interested in reading this website or not

This means that the project documentation would have gone something like this
1. A brief statement stating what the project is, and, if relevant, what it is not. This might include - This is a way of feeding a person for £25 a month. It is a collection of meal planners for people who want to reduce their spend on groceries as much as is feasible whilst getting all the necessary nutrients. Apart from a setup cost for things such as salt and stock cubes, and things like mixing bowls if you don't already have them, the £25 cost is all inclusive, you will not need to spend any more on bigger packets of things that won't be used up during the month. The person whose idea it is is concerned about helping people getting out of debt, but you will not find any debt advice here (possibly including links to debt advice pages). A brief description of how we know it provides all the nutrients (in sales terms this is part of 'earning the right' - it gives credibility)

2. A high level description of what the project contains
This might include sentences such as -
i) a complete meal planner which will show you what to cook and when, to feed 4 people for a month for £25 each
ii) the same meal planner adapted to feed a single adult
iii)repeat for any other meal planners

3. this is the detailed part and is the nuts and bolts and needs a lot of thought as to how best to lay it out
It might be
i) here is meal planner 1 to feed 4 adults for a month for £25 each.
a) a complete list of the meals, titles only eg sweetcorn fritters, possibly with hot links to them
b) 1 or 2 suggested ways of using those meals for a month shown on a single page per suggested way in a grid, possibly with hot links to the recipes
c) a complete shopping list with costings as at (date) and setting out exactly what the item is eg Asda Smart Price Onions, 2Kg pk, cost xp. Plus any items of equipment needed to cook the recipes for the month
d) here are all the recipes you will need for the month. Then recipes set out with as much detail as necessary without overloading with info (may be tricky)
e) a work schedule on what to cook when, eg day x, cook y loaves of bread and the apple curd

ii) here is meal planner 2 using the same meals as meal planner 1 but adapted to feed 1 person
repeat all steps above

iii) here is meal planner 3 using different recipes without using meat or fish (or whatever the description might be)
repeat all steps above

I think it would also be useful to show the costings (as at a date) so that people can choose to use recipes that they know will cost xp to feed y people in isolation without committing to follow the plan as a whole. So we could say that on the recipe list sweetcorn fritters with oven wedges and peas xp pp, onion tart with .... xp pp etc

phew - I can feel my head getting pointy - but in a good way!!

SusanC_2

I thought I'd answer the questions in case it's helpful in terms of preparing the survey:

weezl74 wrote: »

omega 3: how can this be delivered? Rapeseed oil (if low erussic acid and not GM)? Pilchards? Other (please specify- and please for my sake ensure the ingredient you give does actually deliver O-3 )

I use tinned oily fish and flaxseed oil. The flax seed oil is expensive but you only use a very small amount at a time - I use it in things like home made mayonnaise, salad dressings, home made hummus (which also has tahini which is a good source) and almond butter (can't do peanut because OH is allergic to them). We also have pumpkin seed butter. Organic milk has higher omega 3 levels than non-organic milk. Also beans and olive oil are supposed to be good sources.

weezl74 wrote: »

calories: If not delivering any calories through sugar, how would you want these delivered?

sugar: which kinds are ok/not ok? ie is fructose the only acceptable sugar? And if so does it need to be still in the fruit? What can I use to sweeten things which have to be sweetened?

if no sugars, does that mean this is a planner with no pudding/cake/cereal bars at all and is that ok with people?

Having never had much sugar and having always considered it as a sweetener rather than as a main food group I don't entirely understand the specific replacement of sugar calories - I guess I just have more of everything else. (Maybe that's why people thought I was greedy though.)

I mainly use honey or date syrup in baking but do use sugar occasionally.
I wouldn't use fructose as it is still refined and stripped of its assosciated nutrients. Fructose has a low glycemic index which is why it is used by some as an alternative to regular sugar but that is when they are avoiding sugar for a different reason.
For sweetening things as opposed to baking, I personally don't think anything is needed (I would eat cooked rhubarb as is or mixed with plain unsweetened yoghurt for example) but because OH likes things sweeter, I use fruit (e.g. apple and sultanas) to sweeten things like porridge and honey for things like rhubarb yoghurt.

Puddings/cakes:
Our puddings or sweet snacks would be either sourdough fruit muffins made with datesyrup, sourdough fruit loaf (which has mixed fruit and a small amount of honey in it), home made fruit yoghurt or fruit. We do also occasionally have sugary puddings (such as crumble) and I also make low sugar jam for bread and jam because otherwise OH will feel the need for biscuits and cakes.

weezl74 wrote: »

Processed food: please give your definition of what types of processing are acceptable and which are not. In particular please address the following: canning, large scale drying using chemical dessicants of fruits/vegetables (if not then no raisins, sun dried tomatoes, marrowfats, please suggest alternatives here, placing of fruits in a sulpherous environment to carry long haul whilst ripening, sealing in polyeurethane bags,milling (ie of flour) sifting (of flour into different grades), if no sifting, please state what you would like me to do about pasta, just not have any at all?

Personally I try to keep canned goods to a minimum and only things which are actual ingredients such as tomatoes or fish. I don't worry too much about drying methods and although I would prefer not to have sulphites, I think that would probably need to be left for people to substitute for sulphite free if they chose to at additional cost rather than being an integral part of the planner. Flour - I either grind my own or buy stoneground, wholemeal organic. For pasta, my long term aim is to make it but usually I just consider it a compromise item. Currently I do have wholemeal organic pasta as I got a good deal but personally would prioritise wholemeal over organic.

weezl74 wrote: »

Oils/fats how are these to be distilled from seed/fruit? If only to be cold-pressed please state how you would like me to address the trans-fat introduction that cooking will bring, or must these be consumed raw?

If memory serves me correctly, hydrogenated oils go rancid more quickly than naturally saturated fats which is one of the issues. Also, the issues with regard to trans fats seem to have come about since hydrogenation of fats came in which implies that the trans fats produced from cooking are insignificant relative to those deliberately produced. Another point is that if a more highly saturated fat is used then there will inevitably be less trans fats produced as there are less unsaturated fats present to become saturated. In general I would use olive oil raw and butter/lard/coconut oil in cooking/baking. (But as Ceridwen pointed out a vegetarian wouldn't use lard.)

weezl74 wrote: »

Of dairy, is large vat incorporation of setting agents and machine splitting of curds and whey acceptable? If not, is home made paneer cheese the only cheese option, and what should I do about the fact that I need UHT milk to produce this, will I need to teach shirley 4 to ultra heat treat her milk at home?

I do use shop bought hard cheese but try to keep it to a minimum. (I'd probably say cheese is my biggest area of compromise.) I would never buy UHT milk - I probably wouldn't have milk if that was the only option. I make cream cheese by straining home made yoghurt with a tea towel.

weezl74 wrote: »

Eggs: is the injection of the chicken with the immunisation to salmonella enterides acceptable as a processing method or not? If no, please state does shirley 4 not eat eggs at all?

I consider this acceptable.

weezl74 wrote: »

Marmite and stock just not use them? Seasonings, just not use them? (all of those involving fortification, dessicant drying, extraction large scale (- salt) addition of anti-caking agents and preservatives. Is the type of packaging that's used of significance here?

I use home made stock, regular herbs/spices (except cinammon which I use so much of that it's cheaper to buy organic), traditionally brewed soy sauce, celtic sea salt and regular worcestor sauce. I figure that I use such small quantities of them that they are not as important to worry about as other things.

And Happy Birthday! :bdaycake:

grandma247

http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/cookbooks/html/browse.html#W

This is a long list of downloadable old cookbooks I thought some on here might be interested

Sian_the_Green

SusanC wrote: »

I thought I'd answer the questions in case it's helpful in terms of preparing the survey.......
I figure that I use such small quantities of them that they are not as important to worry about as other things.

Oh my gosh, you and Ceridwen are pretty dedicated to this stuff eh? I can't imagine having the time to do it really, but perhaps if I prioritised it more then I would! I realise that some things are probably very bad for us (too much sugar, artificial colours etc) but think that there has to be a balance between living on a farm growing your own of everything and just shovelling whatever you want into your shopping trolley in the supermarket. In our house we have free range eggs and meat (mostly) and always have fair trade coffee and tea etc, that shows what our priorities are I guess. There is also the other variable which is the environmental impact, so coconut oil may be better for you but I find it hard to imagine how it is better for the planet than sunflower oil. Similarly, demanding fresh fruit all year round necessitates either forced greenhouse growing or massive amounts of air miles. I find it hard to think how we can enjoy life to the full if we are always worrying about these things. Good old fashioned common sense has to win out in the end eh? Most people, when it comes down to it, are doing what they think is best, a little education goes a long way to help them make sensible choices.

I think if I were Shirley I would like to have the planner in paper form; I can almost imagine it now!

Regarding savoury snacks; scones, scones, scones, go on, try them, savoury ones I mean. Chuck in some spices and chilli and they are really simple to make and delicious in a savoury way.

Weezl I have no idea how you do it; do I understand that even on your birthday you are typing with one hand whilst feeding Kester and looking after Fergie and keeping your house afloat and researching diet and nutrition...? Crazy. I can barely get myself out of the house in a morning, kudos to you and your remarkable brain. :T:T:T

In_Search_Of_Me

ceridwen wrote: »

:silenced::silenced::silenced::silenced::silenced::silenced::silenced::silenced::silenced::silenced::silenced::silenced:

all I would have said was that its quality, not quantity, that counts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dePMU8R131s

for you weezl...

I will happily hand deliver hugs later for those that may wish to contribute!!!

What a supadupa intellgently good shopper our ferg is eh!

Lesley_Gaye

was looking through my folder of recipes gleaned from OS and found this. Might be of use with the Omega 3 problem?

didn't save who posted it to find the recipes, will carry on with looking through my folder as I might have them saved

Edit, it is one of Weezl's from the USDA thread - do you still have the info re the Omega 3 Weezl? DP is interested in the nut butter but a bit confused about the brazil nut and almond bit as we didn't think they had Omega 3 in them

Lucasmum that sounds lovely!
Well I'm back with my research. My eye-balls are hurting from too much internet!!!

A breakfast of 2 slices of wholemeal toast (with linseeds in the bread) spread with brazil nut and almond butter (recipes on request if you aren't sure about proportions...) will provide the following percentages of your daily requirements:

Essential fatty acids- Omega 3 100%
Calcium = 29%
Iron =18%
Magnesium = 38%
Phosphorus = 37%
Potassium = 9%
Zinc = 28%
Manganese = 62.5%
Selenium 1 00%
vit A 25%
vit K 1.6%
thiamin 20%
riboflavin 10%
niacin 23%
vit B6 13%
folate 5.5%
pantothenic acid 10%

and it costs 13p a day!!!!!

edit, plus found these for savoury snacks - also weezl's

serves 2 as a film watching snack...
100g cooked chickpeas (50g dryweight, before hydrating and cooking) 6.8p
1 Tbspn veg oil 0.6p
salt to taste
1 tsp. ground cumin
1/2 tsp. chile powder
1/2 tsp. garlic powder (less than a penny for all the spices)

approx 8p total, or 4p each

When the soaked and cooked chick peas are well drained and dried, toss with oil, spice mix, and salt. Arrange in single layer on baking sheet. Roast for 45 minutes, or until they are slightly browned and rattle sound when you shake the baking sheet. Serve warm or cool.


savoury peanut butter
I have tried this one and it's really nice
Ingredients:
25 g sesame seeds (7.5p)
100 g peanut butter (21.6p)
1 tablespoon soy sauce (6.8p)
1 tsp lime juice (0.9p)
sprinkle of chilli flakes (negligible)
2 spring onions, chopped (18p estimated - next time, would use regular onion @ estimated 3p)
grated root ginger (3p estimated)

Method:
1. Toast the sesame seeds in a dry pan until golden brown.
2. Remove the sesame seeds from the pan and add the soy sauce, lime juice, chilli, spring onions and ginger. Sizzle until the liquid has almost disappeared.
3. Mix all the ingredients together.
4. Taste, and add salt and pepper (or more lime juice, soy sauce etc.) if required.

Cost per batch:
£0.58 (or about 7.2p per serving)

SusanC_2

Sian_the_Green wrote: »

Oh my gosh, you and Ceridwen are pretty dedicated to this stuff eh? I can't imagine having the time to do it really, but perhaps if I prioritised it more then I would! I realise that some things are probably very bad for us (too much sugar, artificial colours etc) but think that there has to be a balance between living on a farm growing your own of everything and just shovelling whatever you want into your shopping trolley in the supermarket. In our house we have free range eggs and meat (mostly) and always have fair trade coffee and tea etc, that shows what our priorities are I guess. There is also the other variable which is the environmental impact, so coconut oil may be better for you but I find it hard to imagine how it is better for the planet than sunflower oil. Similarly, demanding fresh fruit all year round necessitates either forced greenhouse growing or massive amounts of air miles. I find it hard to think how we can enjoy life to the full if we are always worrying about these things. Good old fashioned common sense has to win out in the end eh? Most people, when it comes down to it, are doing what they think is best, a little education goes a long way to help them make sensible choices.

I probably have more time than the average person since I am a SAHM but I am also the sort of person who looks for the laziest/most efficient way of doing things. I use the slow cooker a lot including for things like roast meat, yoghurt, baked beans and even some baking. (I actually have two slow cookers because one couldn't keep up with everything.) I also don't bother with all the faffy detailed things so if I was doing roast dinner, I would do say chicken in the slow cooker with salt, pepper and sage on the top, mashed potato and two or three boiled veg. I might do gravy sometimes but generally do mashed potato to avoid the need and/or put butter on the veg and I never bother with stuffing. I actually laughed when I read the "Life's too short to stuff a mushroom quote" in the Economy Gastronomy book because they actually have twice stuffed roast chicken as one of their recipes and to me that is just too much unecessary work. I think we all just put in the work according to what our priorities are and different people have different priorities. (I also really enjoy spending time cooking/creating food.)

I agree about it being a difficult balance with environmental impact and it is something I look at when considering what fruit and veg to buy. Bananas are quite good because they come by boat rather than air freight. (I also refuse to buy certian things which we do grow here such as strawberries and apples if they have come from abroad.) I guess coconut oil probably does have a higher environmental impact than sunflower oil but on the other hand by buying mainly ingredients and making most things myself I have probably reduced environmental impact in terms of processing, transport and packaging so I figure overall I am probably doing reasonably.

shanks77

Lesley_Gaye wrote: »

Yes, I think it all has to be mega clear. Our target population are the people who may never have cooked or budgeted very well so need things clearly laid out step by step.

Once B&S have found us by whatever means, I think the very first thing they need to see is what they are seeing.

As an analyst, when I was writing systems, I had to take a top down (jargon, sorry) approach which would work well for this project. This approach means that you get increasing levels of detail as you drill down through the project. It would be of little relevance for instance to B&S to see a recipe for Apple Curd before they know if they are interested in reading this website or not

This means that the project documentation would have gone something like this
1. A brief statement stating what the project is, and, if relevant, what it is not. This might include - This is a way of feeding a person for £25 a month. It is a collection of meal planners for people who want to reduce their spend on groceries as much as is feasible whilst getting all the necessary nutrients. Apart from a setup cost for things such as salt and stock cubes, and things like mixing bowls if you don't already have them, the £25 cost is all inclusive, you will not need to spend any more on bigger packets of things that won't be used up during the month. The person whose idea it is is concerned about helping people getting out of debt, but you will not find any debt advice here (possibly including links to debt advice pages). A brief description of how we know it provides all the nutrients (in sales terms this is part of 'earning the right' - it gives credibility)

2. A high level description of what the project contains
This might include sentences such as -
i) a complete meal planner which will show you what to cook and when, to feed 4 people for a month for £25 each
ii) the same meal planner adapted to feed a single adult
iii)repeat for any other meal planners

3. this is the detailed part and is the nuts and bolts and needs a lot of thought as to how best to lay it out
It might be
i) here is meal planner 1 to feed 4 adults for a month for £25 each.
a) a complete list of the meals, titles only eg sweetcorn fritters, possibly with hot links to them
b) 1 or 2 suggested ways of using those meals for a month shown on a single page per suggested way in a grid, possibly with hot links to the recipes
c) a complete shopping list with costings as at (date) and setting out exactly what the item is eg Asda Smart Price Onions, 2Kg pk, cost xp. Plus any items of equipment needed to cook the recipes for the month
d) here are all the recipes you will need for the month. Then recipes set out with as much detail as necessary without overloading with info (may be tricky)
e) a work schedule on what to cook when, eg day x, cook y loaves of bread and the apple curd

ii) here is meal planner 2 using the same meals as meal planner 1 but adapted to feed 1 person
repeat all steps above

iii) here is meal planner 3 using different recipes without using meat or fish (or whatever the description might be)
repeat all steps above

I think it would also be useful to show the costings (as at a date) so that people can choose to use recipes that they know will cost xp to feed y people in isolation without committing to follow the plan as a whole. So we could say that on the recipe list sweetcorn fritters with oven wedges and peas xp pp, onion tart with .... xp pp etc

phew - I can feel my head getting pointy - but in a good way!!

Wow Wow Wow you are why i just test recipes and leave the brainy stuff for other people. That is very impressive and comprehensive Lesley can see why you have been "promoted" in this thread to Project Manager