Property being sold for development - impact on family member

GotToChange

Thank you for above posts - I know that the lines are blurred in this little saga (I did - RAS - post about this matter on the families board last year as I could see the writing on the walll - even without the new girlfriend in the picture).

The fact is that it is almost impossible to separate everything out - although I was trying to look at matters quite pragmatically (and without my own issues ) when I started this thread.

As far as I know, W was not particularly knowing or caring about inheritance; until recently, the whole issue was different as the legacy would have been a millstone and nothing to be looking forward to. As I have mentioned, if Dad was still living there, he would be sponging off his son quite happily for evermore and would have left him a mortgaged property that would have had to be sold to pay off the brother with the cash-register eyeballs.

Pa's moving out and no longer really giving a s**t plus deciding to liquidate his assets is what has changed everthing. He needs to remember that this Farm came from his now dead wife's family; the hard work she did (for him) hastened her departure from this world and she didn't have time to make sure that her sons were treated fairly. None of what he owns has come about in the normal manner.

RAS

GotToChange wrote: »

Pa's moving out and no longer really giving a s**t plus deciding to liquidate his assets is what has changed everthing. He needs to remember that this Farm came from his now dead wife's family; the hard work she did (for him) hastened her departure from this world and she didn't have time to make sure that her sons were treated fairly. None of what he owns has come about in the normal manner.

I very much doubt if this bothers him in the least.

It is time for you and W to look after yourselves as you can be sure dad is not bothered.

bitsandpieces

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

He's not old at only 35 and he's not completely penniless. There is still plenty of time to make a fresh start and renting isn't always the hell it's sometimes portrayed. In a lot of ways it's a whole lot of freedom.

Absolutely - renting at 35 certainly isn't the end of the world. Many people rent all their lives - and even if W has to rent until the next property price crash, this should be quite manageable.

The outcome might not be fair - and it does seem worth W getting advice on what he is entitled to. If he has no legal right to a share of the property, though, and his father won't give him anything, he may just have to live with this. You say W wasn't focussed on an inheritance - in that case, the best approach might just to be glad for what he was able to contribute to his family. Lots of people get no inheritance at all, even after helping to support their parents: life is often unfair

W should focus on setting up independently. Many people mess up their finances in their 20s (to the extent that their still in debt well into their 20s) and still manage to build good and secure lives for themselves. Even if W is in a poor situation through no fault of his own, he should still be able to recover.

BitterAndTwisted

And, I suspect, what he's slavering after with his new bird will come to him in the normal, conventional manner either! He sounds like the most vile parasite and appears to have shifted his backside to where he appears to think the best prospects are now that his own "inheritance" has dwindled though his own mis-management.

RAS

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

He sounds like the most vile parasite and appears to have shifted his backside to where he appears to think the best prospects are.

I thought it was his "front side"?

GotToChange

I know for sure that it won't bother him (and causing me any upheaval/sadness would actually give him a thrill); he is too busy anticipating his gf's inheritance (seriously; W visited and had a tour of what "A will be getting") to think of the irony of frittering away his own legacy.

Again, this is not something that I will ever have to go through so am quite possibly a little too detached. (My own Father wrote to me last year to tell me that - despite the fact that I have seen him once in 10 years and we are - at his insistence - "estranged" - he has remembered me in his Will (joy) - enough to in his words buy cigarettes for 10 years. He didn't know that I quit quite some time ago. He is only 18 years older than me and the rate things are going, I'll pre-decease him anyway...)
I digress; plans will be made to "MOVE ON" (that bleeping phrase) - minimising Dad's control is what should be important.



(eta - B&T I love you - in a sisterly way of course...)

BitterAndTwisted

GotToChange wrote: »

(eta - B&T I love you - in a sisterly way of course...)

Aw, bless you, lady! The details you have posted on this board about your life and troubles have touched my heart more than once. In a sisterly and not-bitter-and-twisted way, naturally.

clutton_2

""Forget about any chance of fairness in your terms; you are wasting your time and energy when you really need to be sorting out what you are going to do at the end of the summer.""


once you have made a decision - whatever that is - you will feel so much better..... you cannot legislate for someone else's life, and you cannot make them feel the way you want them to feel, or to behave how you want them to behave...

please - let go of W in your head for the time being and sort yourself out......

W is allowing himself to be exploited - no one can do that to us - we do it to ourselves through our complicit lack of refusal to do what they want.....

princeofpounds

You aren't going to get a proper answer on this forum. We can discuss it but this is firmly in the realm of law and evidence, because it absolutely depends on details that we cannot be privy to.

Obviously a talking settlement is far better than legal action, but it might be necessary to try the latter route if he gets nowhere.

Establishing a claim on the property when cohabiting (which was the arrangement here) requires demonstrating that there was an common intention to establish shares in the property. The lucky thing is that the law doesn't just require a written contract - the parties to the action can be held to establish a common intention through their actions. Mind you, written evidence makes it all a million times easier!

So, the normal ways to establish the existence of a common intentions are:
- Verbal or written contract.
- Contributing directly to the purchase price of a property
- If there has been an understanding between the parties and one party has acted to their detriment as a result (such as contributing to mortgage payments directly on a house they don't own, or selling a property they previously owned and sinking the mone into the new place they don't own).

The father of course will be trying to demonstrate that the money was a gift.

He might also claim that it was effectively rent; the son shouldn't expect to live cost-free in a house and might in fact have benefitted over the years as much as he has lost through his generosity. Perhaps the father has not been as ungenerous as it first appears if he provided free board.

In a civil court the matter will be decided on the balance of probabilities.

Consequently I think there might be a reasonable chance of establishing a claim, but he needs to get his act together and see a professional.

There may also be an angle because the farm is clearly operating as a business, but I'm afraid I don't know anything about the law from that.

GotToChange

Thank you ^^ for this - very useful information and what I vaguely thought (without the official terminology).

Of course it would be better to simply come to a talking settlement - but as the Father has decided to play his cards close to his chest - now that there is profit rather than debt to talk about - I don't see that happening and alarm bells are quietly sounding.

The "cohabiting" issue is what I pretty much thought also (seeing it a little like a divorce without a pre-nup to be honest...) and it is certain that W has paid to this mortgage to his own detriment but of course, things will get ugly (potentially) if Dad doesn't recognise that had his elder son upp'ed and off'ed, he would have been up the creek without a paddle. It's all well and good thinking that Dad's been generous but he hasn't really - mainly he's been thinking of himself - stable door/horse bolted etc but the whole process should have been a bit more official in my humble opinion. W did make payments directly to the mortgage company so - if this has to go down the formal route - there is proof of something. Personally, I do hope that it doesn't come to that.

I'm sorry for seeming to go round in circles peeps; I appreciate all words of wisdom and advice. I am taking it all in - thank you.