Diesel vs Petrol

motorguy

tomstickland wrote: »

If I said "just give me two engines, both producing similar acceleration performance, I don't care about the configuration"
then the TDi version would give better mpg.

+1

And thats exactly how it works. Manufacturers produce similar output diesels to their petrol counterparts and price them close together accordingly.

mitchaa

pgilc1 wrote: »

Why the !!!! would you compare a regular A3 TDI to an S3?? Who in GODs name does that. Who thinks 'i'm looking at a 1.9TDI a3 and I'm budgeted here in what i'm going to buy, but you know something, i'm not going to compare the TDI to the 1.8i, i'm going to spend £10K more and buy an s3.

How !!!!!! would you have to be to think thats how people think???

Looking at the Golf example. Do you think people looking at a 2.0 TDI 140BHP SE Golf, think to themselves, 'actually the petrol equivalent of this car is the 2.0T 210BHP GTI, therefore i need to find £7K more to buy the petrol variant'???

You were comparing apples and oranges with your TDI and N/A petrol comparison.

As to your Golf comparisons. The GT TDI (170) model is just as pricey as the GTI (210)

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/new/golf-gti-vi/which-model/compare/price/

motorguy

mitchaa wrote: »

You were comparing apples and oranges with your TDI and N/A petrol comparison.

No i'm not.

mitchaa wrote: »

As to your Golf comparisons. The GT TDI (170) model is just as pricey as the GTI (210)

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/new/golf-gti-vi/which-model/compare/price/

I was talking about the standard 140BHP 2.0TDI SE. Its 'petrol equivalent' will be the closest petrol engine in BHP with the SE spec, not the GTI.

Answer me this, if you were 'selling' the notion of a petrol golf to me as a prospective customer, if my budget was enough to buy a 2.0TDI SE Golf, what would you try to sell me? Click that link there that you provided and tell me what you as a salesman would try to sell me.

motorguy

jaydeeuk1 wrote: »

Likewise....

Still waiting for your link from Topgear - or did you make that up?

mitchaa

pgilc1 wrote: »

No i'm not.




I was talking about the standard 140BHP 2.0TDI SE. Its 'petrol equivalent' will be the closest petrol engine in BHP with the SE spec, not the GTI.

Answer me this, if you were 'selling' the notion of a petrol golf to me as a prospective customer, if my budget was enough to buy a 2.0TDI SE Golf, what would you try to sell me? Click that link there that you provided and tell me what you as a salesman would try to sell me.

If I were a car salesman I would recommend the 1.4TSI 160 as an alternative to the 140bhp TDI:p

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/new/golf-vi/which-model/engines/overview/

Now you are stuck

AdrianHi

mitchaa wrote: »

If I were a car salesman I would recommend the 1.4TSI 160 as an alternative to the 140bhp TDI:p

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/new/golf-vi/which-model/engines/overview/

Now you are stuck

I like the figures on that 1.4TSI 160 especially with the DSG gearbox. Only 6mpg worse than the slower slightly cheaper to buy diesel.
It's the super and turbo charged engine I presume, which means decent torque from low rpm. Yeah I'd pick the 1.4TSI out of those two no question.
The thing is you could pick comparable cars from another manufacturer and get a result the other way around.
Ford Focus 1.6 duratech petrol 42mpg £150 tax disk 0-62 11.9 secs £17.8K
Ford Focus 1.6 duratorque diesel 74mpg £0 tax disk 0-62 12.6 secs £19.6K
Which is best?
If you can be bothered look at the Mazda 6 engine ranges and try and find comparable cars. It seems that petrol engine power outputs and performance fall in between what is available in diesel.
There is a good fast diesel doing 50mpg and 0-60 in about 8.5 seconds, a cheaper petrol 2.5L with similar performance and 34mpg. Does that make the diesel better in this case?

motorguy

mitchaa wrote: »

If I were a car salesman I would recommend the 1.4TSI 160 as an alternative to the 140bhp TDI:p

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/new/golf-vi/which-model/engines/overview/

Now you are stuck

Perfect! Thank you.

ie, you didnt look for a petrol car of the same engine size but with a turbo bolted on to it, you looked for a petrol car with comparable power and trim level!!

Thats all i've been trying to say - you dont compare a 2.0TDI to a 2.0T petrol, you compare a 2.0TDI to the petrol variant with similar power. In the case of VW that happens to be a 1.4 litre engine with a turbocharger AND a supercharger.

So the comparator IS power, irrespective of how its produced.

motorguy

AdrianHi wrote: »

I like the figures on that 1.4TSI 160 especially with the DSG gearbox. Only 6mpg worse than the slower slightly cheaper to buy diesel.
It's the super and turbo charged engine I presume, which means decent torque from low rpm. Yeah I'd pick the 1.4TSI out of those two no question.
The thing is you could pick comparable cars from another manufacturer and get a result the other way around.
Ford Focus 1.6 duratech petrol 42mpg £150 tax disk 0-62 11.9 secs £17.8K
Ford Focus 1.6 duratorque diesel 74mpg £0 tax disk 0-62 12.6 secs £19.6K
Which is best?

My point was never to get the answer 'which is best' (and it is the petrol engine in this case) it was to prove that its not about comparing 2.0TDI engines to 2.0 Turbo Petrol engines.

motorguy

AdrianHi wrote: »

I like the figures on that 1.4TSI 160 especially with the DSG gearbox. Only 6mpg worse than the slower slightly cheaper to buy diesel.
It's the super and turbo charged engine I presume, which means decent torque from low rpm. Yeah I'd pick the 1.4TSI out of those two no question.
The thing is you could pick comparable cars from another manufacturer and get a result the other way around.

For the record, i think thats the way engines will go in the future. I read somewhere that there are massive extra costs going to be added to diesels in the future to reduce emissions, so the way forward will be small turbo'd petrol cars, possibly with hybrid capability - but thats maybe 5 years down the line before it starts to become commonplace.

Rolandtheroadie

mitchaa wrote: »

Are you drunk? If you put a blower on a diesel, you need to put 1 on a petrol. You have to compare apples with apples.

Take a 2.0 Golf TDI and a 2.0 Golf GTI, the same for an A3 and an S3, the same for a Leon FR and a Leon Cupra. (I know, all same VAG engines)

The petrols are miles out in front in terms of performance.

Ok.

So whats cheaper to buy, run, service, insure etc? Turbo Diesel, or Turbo Petrol. If you do, say, 10000 miles a year, what would be cheaper to run.
Is that not what all the diesel/petrol debates are normally about?
Then the petrol fans come on and say "oh if your not doing 79 million miles a year, your better just getting a petrol" and "a petrols soooo much more faster than your diesel, cheaper to buy, cheaper to service etc,etc blah blah blah."