Diesel vs Petrol

jaydeeuk1

pgilc1 wrote: »

Everything in your first paragraphs just demonstrates that we're wasting our time debating this, because petrol advocates dont want to hear and dont want to know.

Likewise....

sebdangerfield

pgilc1 wrote: »

Thats even better then. And it shows the effort that manufacturers are putting in to diesel development.

Yes, for every 3.0i BMW there is generally a 3.0TD version - thats my point.

The direct comparison for a BMW 320d is a BMW 320i - ie, BMW do NOT make a 2.0T because they know its not what their market wants.

So your comparison of a BMW 6 cylinder 2.0 normally aspirated 320 engine to a four cylinder petrol turbo Diesel BMW engine is a better comparison than my example using the same fuel system, same configuration and same breathing? :rotfl:

There are some really knowledgable guys on here but so many who know jack about cars! I'll stick to pistonheads!

AdrianHi

If I had a tenner every time a diesel vs. petrol debate ran for several pages on a forum ... well I could buy a few tanks of petrol... no sorry.. diesel

It's impressive what you can do with a turbo diesel engine, strong engine block, lower temperature fuel burn, means you can push the tuning to greater extremes than a petrol turbo and keep reliability. But then EU emissions and soot control rules come into play and you have all these new bits like EGR valves and DPFs which serve to degrade the performance vs. fuel economy balance and offer more possibilities for something to go wrong - possibilities that don't exist on the "equivalent" petrol engine.

I think it's tough to compare diesel vs. petrol as they are quite different animals. I like the relaxed easy torque of a diesel, seems suited to everyday road use. In 4 cylinder form there is no character or refinement though and in 6 cylinder form as in a 330d the performance is awesome, fuel consumption pretty good, it's quiet, refined, but still lacks the "sparkle" of a 6 cylinder petrol singing it's way to 6000-7000rpm.
Which do I want?
Depends on what mood I'm in. Diesel doesn't automatically mean money saving compared to the "equivalent" petrol though.
You pays your money, you make your choices ... and you take your chances.

What fun we will have when the power source is sorted out and we start debating electric vs. petrol vs. diesel.
Easy answer of course, electric buries them all 100ft under but does it silently and without character.

mitchaa

pgilc1 wrote: »

No its not. You're not comparing like with like.

Can you show me where theres a 2.0 Turbo petrol mondeo in say, 'Edge' trim to match the 2.0TDCI?

Or can you show me a 2.0i Turbo 3 series BMW to match the 2.0TD?

The combination of the turbo and the diesel engine is merely how the TD engine goes about getting its power. In the same way as most petrol cars use a fuel injection system.

Therefore the real world choice and comparison that people have to make when buying say a mondeo is 2.0i versus 2.0TDI. They wont be looking at a 2.0TDI and thinking hmm, now wheres that 2.0 Turbo petrol car?

Are you drunk? If you put a blower on a diesel, you need to put 1 on a petrol. You have to compare apples with apples.

Take a 2.0 Golf TDI and a 2.0 Golf GTI, the same for an A3 and an S3, the same for a Leon FR and a Leon Cupra. (I know, all same VAG engines)

The petrols are miles out in front in terms of performance.

AndieJagain

mitchaa wrote: »

Are you drunk? If you put a blower on a diesel, you need to put 1 on a petrol. You have to compare apples with apples.

Take a 2.0 Golf TDI and a 2.0 Golf GTI, the same for an A3 and an S3, the same for a Leon FR and a Leon Cupra. (I know, all same VAG engines)

The petrols are miles out in front in terms of performance.

you're right, they'll pass everything except a petrol station., while you're filling up, the diesel's are way back in front. (assuming the lane hogger's get out of the way)

tomstickland

mitchaa wrote: »

Are you drunk? If you put a blower on a diesel, you need to put 1 on a petrol. You have to compare apples with apples.

If I said "just give me two engines, both producing similar acceleration performance, I don't care about the configuration"
then the TDi version would give better mpg.

motorguy

sebdangerfield wrote: »

So your comparison of a BMW 6 cylinder 2.0 normally aspirated 320 engine to a four cylinder petrol turbo Diesel BMW engine is a better comparison than my example using the same fuel system, same configuration and same breathing? :rotfl:

There are some really knowledgable guys on here but so many who know jack about cars! I'll stick to pistonheads!

Whats with the :rotfl:???? Are you !!!!!!?

For kick off the 2.0i BMW is a 4 cylinder engine so for all your 'knowledge' you know didly about the car you're talking about, and if you look at all the price points in the BMW range, for every diesel variant, there is an EQUIVALENT diesel variant of similar power and usually < £1000 of a price difference.

Do you really think someone going to spend £24K on a new 320D will be comparing it to anything other than the 320i petrol variant as that will be his budget point?

Are you totally thick?

motorguy

jaydeeuk1 wrote: »

Likewise....

No... I can see both sides of the debate. I can see advantages in both. I said in this thread or one of the ones before it, you pays your money you makes your choice. Neither is 'wrong'. They are two different ways of solving the same problem - how to get from A to B.

Our current cars are a Passat TDI and a Subaru WRX-S. Last year i'd a petrol Alfa and we'd a z4 3.0Si coupe.

Different cars, different roles.

motorguy

AdrianHi wrote: »

If I had a tenner every time a diesel vs. petrol debate ran for several pages on a forum ... well I could buy a few tanks of petrol... no sorry.. diesel

It's impressive what you can do with a turbo diesel engine, strong engine block, lower temperature fuel burn, means you can push the tuning to greater extremes than a petrol turbo and keep reliability. But then EU emissions and soot control rules come into play and you have all these new bits like EGR valves and DPFs which serve to degrade the performance vs. fuel economy balance and offer more possibilities for something to go wrong - possibilities that don't exist on the "equivalent" petrol engine.

I think it's tough to compare diesel vs. petrol as they are quite different animals. I like the relaxed easy torque of a diesel, seems suited to everyday road use. In 4 cylinder form there is no character or refinement though and in 6 cylinder form as in a 330d the performance is awesome, fuel consumption pretty good, it's quiet, refined, but still lacks the "sparkle" of a 6 cylinder petrol singing it's way to 6000-7000rpm.
Which do I want?
Depends on what mood I'm in. Diesel doesn't automatically mean money saving compared to the "equivalent" petrol though.
You pays your money, you make your choices ... and you take your chances.

What fun we will have when the power source is sorted out and we start debating electric vs. petrol vs. diesel.
Easy answer of course, electric buries them all 100ft under but does it silently and without character.

Totally agree with you!

:T

motorguy

mitchaa wrote: »

Are you drunk? If you put a blower on a diesel, you need to put 1 on a petrol. You have to compare apples with apples.

Take a 2.0 Golf TDI and a 2.0 Golf GTI, the same for an A3 and an S3, the same for a Leon FR and a Leon Cupra. (I know, all same VAG engines)

The petrols are miles out in front in terms of performance.

Why the !!!! would you compare a regular A3 TDI to an S3?? Who in GODs name does that. Who thinks 'i'm looking at a 1.9TDI a3 and I'm budgeted here in what i'm going to buy, but you know something, i'm not going to compare the TDI to the 1.8i, i'm going to spend £10K more and buy an s3.

How !!!!!! would you have to be to think thats how people think???

Looking at the Golf example. Do you think people looking at a 2.0 TDI 140BHP SE Golf, think to themselves, 'actually the petrol equivalent of this car is the 2.0T 210BHP GTI, therefore i need to find £7K more to buy the petrol variant'???