Speed limits & court appearances

CHR15

bear1969 wrote: »

pathetic you dont seem to have someone from your family who has been killed by some little prat who thought it great to speed then eh ?

I think pompeyrich was implying there are often more important things to concentrate on than the needle on the speedo..... which there are.

A great many people have died having accidents whilst driving well within the speed limits.

Speed limits are not a No Accident/Inevitable Accident barrier.

Sorry to hear of your loss.

pompeyrich

bear1969 wrote: »

pathetic you dont seem to have someone from your family who has been killed by some little prat who thought it great to speed then eh ?

No fortunately I havent and I can fully understand your anger if you have suffered. However I dont think we were discussing loonies that deliberately cause carnage, more the regular driver who is so busy looking out for the very real dangers that lurk everywhere and may slip over the limit, or even dare to take advantage of near deserted motorways at 3 in the morning.

DaveMacD

mikey72 wrote: »

Guess you missed the point of all those adverts then.
Would you rather be hit by a 4x4 doing 20mph, or one doing 40mph?

As others have said, I'd rather open my eyes and obey the GCC and NOT get knocked down. It seems to have worked well for me for nearly 35 years:p It's also quite interesting that in an impact with a pedestrian, many 4x4's distribute the stresses onto the pedestrian more evenly than a saloon car, making a low speed collision with a 4x4 safer than being swept up by a regular car...

I guess YOU missed my point that there IS NO POINT WHATSOEVER in having a 20mph limit outside a school if most of the people driving by are paying more attention to where they can drop off Tarquin so they don't have to stress their little legs walking more than 5 yards to the school gate, rather than actually DRIVING their vehicles.

pathetic you dont seem to have someone from your family who has been killed by some little prat who thought it great to speed then eh ?

No, but I do remember watching a very close friend sailing over the bonnet of a car travelling at UNDER the limit when she ran out into the street without looking. I also remember how long it took for her to recover, and the long term effects the accident had on the driver (who was blameless) and the lollipop lady who was only a few yards down the road, but was unable to stop her. I'm sorry you lost someone, but bringing bias into the argument will not make me turn round and apologise for my point of view.

mikey72

DaveMacD wrote: »

As others have said, I'd rather open my eyes and obey the GCC and NOT get knocked down. It seems to have worked well for me for nearly 35 years:p It's also quite interesting that in an impact with a pedestrian, many 4x4's distribute the stresses onto the pedestrian more evenly than a saloon car, making a low speed collision with a 4x4 safer than being swept up by a regular car...

I guess YOU missed my point that there IS NO POINT WHATSOEVER in having a 20mph limit outside a school if most of the people driving by are paying more attention to where they can drop off Tarquin so they don't have to stress their little legs walking more than 5 yards to the school gate, rather than actually DRIVING their vehicles.


No, but I do remember watching a very close friend sailing over the bonnet of a car travelling at UNDER the limit when she ran out into the street without looking. I also remember how long it took for her to recover, and the long term effects the accident had on the driver (who was blameless) and the lollipop lady who was only a few yards down the road, but was unable to stop her. I'm sorry you lost someone, but bringing bias into the argument will not make me turn round and apologise for my point of view.

I don't follow your arguement, and you saying she wouldn't have been more hurt at 40mph?

DaveMacD

mikey72 wrote: »

I don't follow your arguement, and you saying she wouldn't have been more hurt at 40mph?

No, I'm saying that as a pedestrian, I wouldn't be trusting someone else to look out for my safety, especially not around a school at chucking out time.

I'm saying that the fact that the posted limit is now 20 rather than 30 is meaningless if no-one is concentrating on the other aspects of their driving.

If the 4x4 doing 40 is being driven by someone who is otherwise driving 'properly' (alert, paying attention to the road etc) and a kid runs out in front of them, the damage is likely to be less (since the driver will be braking hard, taking evasive action etc) than a driver who is doing 20, but their head is so far up their a$$ that they don't notice the child running out, and fail to brake until they have driven over the top of them.

Speed doesn't kill on its own. It only contributes to severity of incidents caused by other underlying bad driving traits like inattention or distraction.

mikey72

DaveMacD wrote: »

No, I'm saying that as a pedestrian, I wouldn't be trusting someone else to look out for my safety, especially not around a school at chucking out time.

I'm saying that the fact that the posted limit is now 20 rather than 30 is meaningless if no-one is concentrating on the other aspects of their driving.

If the 4x4 doing 40 is being driven by someone who is otherwise driving 'properly' (alert, paying attention to the road etc) and a kid runs out in front of them, the damage is likely to be less (since the driver will be braking hard, taking evasive action etc) than a driver who is doing 20, but their head is so far up their a$$ that they don't notice the child running out, and fail to brake until they have driven over the top of them.

Speed doesn't kill on its own. It only contributes to severity of incidents caused by other underlying bad driving traits like inattention or distraction.

While I actually agree with everything you have said here, I still don't see have you advocate 20mph outside a school as being less safe than 40mph.

DaveMacD

mikey72 wrote: »

While I actually agree with everything you have said here, I still don't see have you advocate 20mph outside a school as being less safe than 40mph.

I'm not, I'm merely stating that it's a bit pointless parading the 20 limit as a panacea to accidents outside a school when the real cause of the accidents lies elsewhere (i.e. people not paying attention). In my original post, I did point out that it's a sensible move (lowering the limits near schools) but on its own, pretty worthless.

If the car is braking before impact, the impact speed is reduced to less than 40, maybe even less than 20 by the point of impact. If the driver is doing 20, but doesn't react to the kid running out, the impact speed will still be 20, and (according to the adverts) there is still a good chance of death. The issue isn't the speed, but the inattentive driving.

mikey72

DaveMacD wrote: »

I'm not, I'm merely stating that it's a bit pointless parading the 20 limit as a panacea to accidents outside a school when the real cause of the accidents lies elsewhere (i.e. people not paying attention). In my original post, I did point out that it's a sensible move (lowering the limits near schools) but on its own, pretty worthless.

If the car is braking before impact, the impact speed is reduced to less than 40, maybe even less than 20 by the point of impact. If the driver is doing 20, but doesn't react to the kid running out, the impact speed will still be 20, and (according to the adverts) there is still a good chance of death. The issue isn't the speed, but the inattentive driving.

Too many ifs now.
The only facts you will have is that the driver is the same, and the car is the same, the only thing you can change externally is the speed. So if you start at 20mph, it's better than starting at 40mph.

DaveMacD

mikey72 wrote: »

Too many ifs now.
The only facts you will have is that the driver is the same, and the car is the same, the only thing you can change externally is the speed. So if you start at 20mph, it's better than starting at 40mph.

Only if the driver is paying attention, and that's where the problem lies. Most of the drivers floating about schools at drop off/pick up time aren't paying attention to the road, the kids, or anything else for that matter. They are only interested in what is least work for themselves. My partner has nearly been run down several times now by parents at the local school. She is the lollipop lady (big yellow jacket, trousers and hat, big red and yellow lollipop) and they DON'T see her, because they aren't looking. The speed they are doing at the time is immaterial as it is their lack of concentration that will cause an accident

So, yes, if everything is equal, getting hit at 20 MAY be better than getting hit at 40, but is getting hit at 31 definitely going to kill, while 30 makes you safe? And as I've already stated, I'd rather not get hit at all, hence my logic of not trusting MY safety to someone I don't know.

alo6

DaveMacD wrote: »

Only if the driver is paying attention, and that's where the problem lies. Most of the drivers floating about schools at drop off/pick up time aren't paying attention to the road, the kids, or anything else for that matter. They are only interested in what is least work for themselves. My partner has nearly been run down several times now by parents at the local school. She is the lollipop lady (big yellow jacket, trousers and hat, big red and yellow lollipop) and they DON'T see her, because they aren't looking. The speed they are doing at the time is immaterial as it is their lack of concentration that will cause an accident

So, yes, if everything is equal, getting hit at 20 MAY be better than getting hit at 40, but is getting hit at 31 definitely going to kill, while 30 makes you safe? And as I've already stated, I'd rather not get hit at all, hence my logic of not trusting MY safety to someone I don't know.

i agree, but thats if your not stuck behind a double parker sitting on the zig zags in her zafira.

That really annoys me, they moan moan moan about even doing 20mph outside the school but there the one sitting on the zig-zags causing a potential hazard.