No wonder Labour has bankrupted us!

julieq

Anyone with extreme views is an extremist by definition, and there are some very extreme views on this board. It doesn't mean you're plotting the overthrow of our way of life, but it's just as wrong to believe chavs should be turfed out of their homes and have benefits removed (a common theme here) as to say people should be flogged for drunkenness. Or indeed that people should be physically attacked for marching through a village.

I agree that underresourcing is a big problem in Afghanistan, but even with US or Soviet levels of resource you don't win wars in Afghanistan. In fact by raising all casualties to the status of heroes dying for their country you create a smokescreen of patriotic fervour that prevents you asking difficult questions about what exactly it is they are dying for, or the cost in innocent lives on both sides of what our Government is asking them to do. We certainly are killing innocent people in horrific ways. This is not going unnoticed and is a recruiting sergeant for the extremists.

Most young people are radical to some degree. Do you deport someone for supporting the SWP or the BNP? Do you only deport brown people who support an Islamic state? Where do you deport British citizens to anyway? Doesn't it tell you something that to contemplate these sort of things you have to remove human rights legislation?

leveller2911

Julie theres a huge difference between someone promoting killing men,women and children in cold blood and someone saying chavs should have their benefits cut.

In war the innocent are always victims,they always have been and always will be.

If you seriously saying the deaths of innocent people by UK,US forces in Afganistan and Iraq are on the same level as Muslim extremist attacks in Mumbai,Pakistan and Afganistan then shame on you.

The human rights act has done more harm than good to this country and whichever Government we have come May should have the spine to withdraw from it.We had morality and rule of law before the HRA it worked ok and could have been modernised with a bit of common sense.

QUOTE: "Most young people are radical" thats quite a statement do you have statistics to prove that.?

War is dirty and in most cases its difficult to tell who's won.

julieq

leveller2911 wrote: »

Julie theres a huge difference between someone promoting killing men,women and children in cold blood and someone saying chavs should have their benefits cut.
...

If you seriously saying the deaths of innocent people by UK,US forces in Afganistan and Iraq are on the same level as Muslim extremist attacks in Mumbai,Pakistan and Afganistan then shame on you.

The irony of this juxtaposition is breathtaking.

Tell the mother of someone killed accidentally by an airstrike in Afghanistan that that death is not on the same level of human tragedy as the death of someone who died in an extremist bombing or in one of the Twin Towers.

If you are suggesting that the death of innocent people is a price worth paying, then you're explicitly "promoting the deaths of men women and children" in the same way as extremists on the other side. Or else you'd better be a hell of a lot clearer on what the worthwhile objective they're dying for than the government is.

The war in Afghanistan hasn't stopped attacks. It doesn't stop training of extremists. You do not kill ideas with bombs, and in fact badly aimed bombs do more harm than good.

I'm not defending Al Qaeda, or this particular mad mullah, or any of the ragbag of nutters of all persuasions. But if you oversimplify a conflict to us as "heroes" and them as expendable bags of meat who can be sacrificed on our whim, you just feed the fires of conflict.

The best response to the march would not be a fight, but simply to ask EVERYONE in the village to leave for 12 hours. Inhabitants, press, everyone. That'd stop the march more surely than any vacuous threat of violence or prosecution. Give them the freedom to march and express their views, just ignore them. This organisation wants controversy and publicity, they need have neither.

Graham_Devon

julieq wrote: »

Anyone with extreme views is an extremist by definition, and there are some very extreme views on this board. It doesn't mean you're plotting the overthrow of our way of life, but it's just as wrong to believe chavs should be turfed out of their homes and have benefits removed (a common theme here) as to say people should be flogged for drunkenness. Or indeed that people should be physically attacked for marching through a village.

Oh come on Julie.

This man has praised the terrorists who carried out 9/11 and 7/7.

He called the terrorists involved in the 9/11 attacks the "magnificent 19".

For you to turn round and link extreme views on here (your version of extreme I may add) and this man, is grossly insulting.

For you to compare his views to peoples views on chavs, is just tasteless.

julieq

No Graham, its the same thing precisely. It's the scapegoating of an entire group of people on the basis of a particular group they're in. I'm against all forms of extremism, Al Qaeda and the particularly brainless attacks on groups we get here, and for the same reason. But I don't try to jump up and down on their heads for expressing their views, I argue with them. Or mostly I ignore them. Ignoring people is usually a better way of getting them to shut up.

sjaypink

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Oh come on Julie.

This man has praised the terrorists who carried out 9/11 and 7/7.

He called the terrorists involved in the 9/11 attacks the "magnificent 19".

For you to turn round and link extreme views on here (your version of extreme I may add) and this man, is grossly insulting.

For you to compare his views to peoples views on chavs, is just tasteless.

GD the liberal lefty, I like it :j

....As you were :A

misskool

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Oh come on Julie.

This man has praised the terrorists who carried out 9/11 and 7/7.

He called the terrorists involved in the 9/11 attacks the "magnificent 19".

For you to turn round and link extreme views on here (your version of extreme I may add) and this man, is grossly insulting.

For you to compare his views to peoples views on chavs, is just tasteless.

Turfing out people so they are homeless isn't extreme then? :rolleyes:

everyone has their own beliefs and they are welcome to their opinion and to stand up for them.

leveller2911

Any death is terrible ,all human life is precious but there is a difference.The Muslim extremist "willingly" "Openly" Targeted Non Combatants ,I don't believe ANY British soldier or airman would do the same and thats what makes them different.....

You said "extremists" on here having a dig at dolite,chavs was on a par as these "extremist" muslims......Clearly not true.

leveller2911

julieq wrote: »

No Graham, its the same thing precisely

julieq wrote: »

. It's the scapegoating of an entire group of people on the basis of a particular group they're in. I'm against all forms of extremism, Al Qaeda and the particularly brainless attacks on groups we get here, and for the same reason. But I don't try to jump up and down on their heads for expressing their views, I argue with them. Or mostly I ignore them. Ignoring people is usually a better way of getting them to shut up.

I'm not gonna bother posting on this thread again(i'm sure some will thank me for that) but you need to wake up and smell the coffee, Bet your a Nu-labour party member? Your are soooo Nu-labour I actually find you quite scary .:rolleyes:

Graham_Devon

julieq wrote: »

No Graham, its the same thing precisely. It's the scapegoating of an entire group of people on the basis of a particular group they're in. I'm against all forms of extremism, Al Qaeda and the particularly brainless attacks on groups we get here, and for the same reason. But I don't try to jump up and down on their heads for expressing their views, I argue with them. Or mostly I ignore them. Ignoring people is usually a better way of getting them to shut up.

No Julie, it's really not.

It's BLOWING up people. It's stating that people who have killed thousands of innocent people with absolutely no warning are heroes. It's not scapegoating a group, it's killing them en masse.

The mere fact that no one has said that chavs should be thrown out of their homes and onto the streets isn't really important here (I'd like to see your evidence, but yet again you have taken something and twisted it to suit, I can provide you my evidence of this excuse for a human being), but for you to compare the two as being even slightly on the same par, is frankly disgusting.

For you to suggest others on this form hold extreme views on a par with those is disgusting.

Edit: And now your comparing intent to kill en masse, with an accidental killing in a war zone!?!?! Dear lord!!!