Stairs "non-habitable" loft - create problems later?

stalbanshouseholder

We live in a 3 bed terraced, Victorian property that we bought three years ago. We're considering putting a permanent staircase to the loft and want to know your thoughts on the potential implications further down the line if we do so.

We use this space for light storage but, owing to a growing family, we find ourselves having to pull down the loft ladder once or twice a week to get something down.

We don't feel that using the loft ladder is a very safe way of doing this, particularly with one member of the family having mobility problems and kids who would like to go up themselves, get their stuff (toys, suitcases, sledges, etc), and come back down again.

We have no intention of forming a "habitable room" that meets building regulations for such, only to continue using our loft as we have been - for storage - but with a safe way of gaining access. But we have some concerns that I thought I'd pick your brains about:

* are we likely to have a problem when we remortgage in 3 years time?

* would we have a problem selling the property without the building regulations sign off or would most buyers be happy if we simply supplied an indemnity policy (and possibly structural survey) at the time of sale [both of which are covered in some other discussions here]?

* might we need to contact our current insurance and mortgage providers?

* are there any other issues you can think of?

Thanks!

Fire_Fox

Have you spoken to building regs to find out what the implications of putting in a permanent staircase are on their attitude to both the loft area and the rest of your home? Is it possible to make a habitable room of the loft, even if you don't want to take that step? If so I would do the staircase properly and get it signed off, as it could be a selling point later. If the next owner needs to undo some work that you have bodged that may detract from the vale of your home.

marcg

Putting in proper stairs does not transform the loft into a habitable room in the eyes of building control. In fact, you are at liberty to use anything you see fit to access storage space - anything from a rope ladder to a lift. There are no regulations for access to storage in houses. If you want your staircase to comply to part K for future conversion of the loft then it will have minimum 250mm deep steps x max 220mm high (42deg pitch max).

However! You will need to consider where the new floor level will be - it's not going to be just the top of the ceiling joists + boarding. The new floor will be approx 250mm higher than the top of joists so the top of the staircase will need to be there to be of use. The exact position of the finished floor level will only be known when the architect and structural engineer have co-ordinated their work but 250mm will be about right and the staircase could be adjusted from that.

On the other hand, that 250mm might slide in-between the ceiling joists so it could be lower (which in turn would make your loft room bigger). So maybe trying to design the stairs for a future conversion is a bit of a red herring.

googler

marcg wrote: »

However! You will need to consider where the new floor level will be - it's not going to be just the top of the ceiling joists + boarding. The new floor will be approx 250mm higher than the top of joists so the top of the staircase will need to be there to be of use. The exact position of the finished floor level will only be known when the architect and structural engineer have co-ordinated their work but 250mm will be about right and the staircase could be adjusted from that.

Why can't the floor level be at top of joists + boarding ???

marcg

Because the ceiling joists are only 3" deep and won't take the weight of a double bed/bath/filled wardrobe. If the OP wants a proper loft conversion later then a new structural floor will need to be built above the ceiling joists (or possibly to overlap between those joists). This floor will typically be made up of 8" joists with 1" board over.

googler

Did the OP tell you this outside the thread, or are you assuming this?

chappers

googler wrote: »

Did the OP tell you this outside the thread, or are you assuming this?

Fair assumption considering the info given by the OP (3 bed victorian terrace).
However I would never assume nor measure, the finished floor height for a staircase, from a set of drawings or a measurement, other than from the newly created finished floor.

stalbanshouseholder

Thank you all for the replies so far - this is proving really helpful and I wanted to respond to some of your questions...

Firefox: Yes, we've contacted local building control who say that in their view a permanent staircase makes the room above a habitable space, triggering the need to comply fully building regulations for a safe exit corridor and the Part K guidelines relating to staircases that MarcG mentions...

MarcG: Our intention is to meet the Part K guidelines. What you've said about someone later possibly wanting to do a full blown conversion, and strengthening the floor adding to the floor height, has made me think that we perhaps need to plan ahead for this, perhaps by creating a small shallow landing that we can later build up around. I will ask my builder. Thanks for bringing that up!

I'd like to hear from other people who have either gone the route of putting permanent stairs up to a loft space, without feeling the need to get building regulation sign off, or who have recently bought a place that had similar work done.

Were there problems? In particular, were there issues at the time of sale or remortgage (the latter more important for us as we plan to stay here at least 7-10 more years)?

chappers

your council are wrong and MarcG is correct, that is the short answer.
The long answer cut short is that there are a number of things combined that make the room a habitable space and not one defining factor.
If you are seriously considering converting the loft in the future and wanting the stairs now I would seriously consider getting some proper drawings done now and then considering getting your builder to sort the floor structure and the staircase, get that part inspected by BC and then finish the conversion at your leisure.

leveller2911

Just like to put my peneth worth in.

Because the OP is intending to put a staircase up to the roof space in an existing house (ie Not a new build) theyre not required to comply with Part K of the building regs, nor minimun tread width of 220 wide or maximum rise of 220 high....

If they wanted to they could put a 60 degree pitched staircase.They would need to comply with the fire regs though including fire rated door at the top with a door closure and double gyproc to the underside,escape window etc etc



I would agree its best to get some plans drawn up as these "little " projects have a habit of snow balling

FilthyLuka

Putting a staircase into a 3 bed terrace house can take out alot of room/space on the 1st floor. Its not something that would normally be done unless you were getting that space back somehow - like converting the loft. Converting a loft to a store room requires the same compliance with the building regulations as it does to creating a new habitable room. A loft space is not designed as a storage area of any significance bar some xmas decs/empty suitcases, much more and your asking the ceiling to do the job of floor joists hence the 8" joists emntioned.


Once you get a permanant access it would not be long before it became a den for the kids/study and ultimately a bedroom

I agree with the building control interpretation (which you would need for the ceiling trimming etc) in answer to your question I think you would be building a problem for yourself in the future