We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum... Read More »
PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.
We're aware that some users are experiencing technical issues which the team are working to resolve. See the Community Noticeboard for more info. Thank you for your patience.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Stairs "non-habitable" loft - create problems later?
Options
Comments
-
Hi PoppySarah, we've had it drawn up properly by a builder who has done the same exact staircase in another property, so no problem there. That's not at all the issue - simply that we can't get a habitable loft room signed off, but would still like to be able to get up and down to the storage regularly (once or twice a week) and safely.0
-
I would have thought the veluxes would make it hard to convince building control that it is storage and not habitable, but call them and explain the situation, especially about your wife's health condition. I have nothing but praise for building control (as opposed to planners) who will generally be flexible and reasonable on anything.I'm an ARB-registered RIBA-chartered architect. However, no advice given over the internet can be truly relied upon since the person giving the advice hasn't actually got enough information to give it with confidence. Go and pay someone!0
-
poppysarah wrote: »I can't climb a loft ladder due to emotional trauma issues about the top of ladders (they seriously bother me, it's part of my vertigo thing) - so I just never climb the loft ladder.
If you want her to use it regularly then it sounds like you want a proper room so have a look in the local paper for a man who draws plans up (cheaper than an architect) and get his advice on how much it'd cost to get it all planned and done properly.
Please don't just use a man who draws plans up - he might be a plumber or a used car salesman for all you know. As a minimum you need a BIAT qualified technician (still cheaper than an architect) who has the required technical training. The added value with architects is space planning and design ability. Technicians just do the technical bit (that we also do) but leave the rest to us.
For what you want to do you don't need an architect but you do need a technician.I'm an ARB-registered RIBA-chartered architect. However, no advice given over the internet can be truly relied upon since the person giving the advice hasn't actually got enough information to give it with confidence. Go and pay someone!0 -
Fully endorse the above, as a builder I have seen plans drawn up by these sorts of guys who advertise in the papers saying "plans drawn to local authority standards" and I can assure you that they don't always. One such set of plans I saw were drawn up by a guy who was a drafts man in a car factory and whilst they looked great and were fine for planning, nearly every specification for building regs was out of date or inadequately specified.
If you have a decent builder with experience of loft conversions in your area, he should know all the specs himself.0 -
We have done similar in our Victorian Terrace, got stairs made to measure from ?Stairplan.com? for a real bargain 400 quid delivered. Made sure it was structurally sound but did not try for building regs due to limited height over stairs and wanting the stairs to be 45 degreees to match existing stairs underneath - in process of selling, hoping there will be no issues - we obviously sold house with value based on it being a boarded loft area rather than a room however I think financially meeting the regs would have more than paid for itself in terms of the added value from selling with an extra bedroom.I think....0
-
you want to use it as storage:
dont put in windows
dont start decorating & furnishing it
for lighting just use basic strip lights
get the floor done properly, to support people moving & things like bookcases, but dont put down carpet etc
where are the stairs going to go?
can they be put behind a door, so they are seperated from whatever room they are in?0 -
Dear Stalbanshouseholder
I have just found this forum, have exactly the same dilemma for our house!
In our previous house which was Victorian terrace we did a full loft conversion all to regs spec but never bothered getting regs because we knew the stairs were ever so slightly too steep and the room remained open plan (several years ago) ie no landing or door at the top. This was not a problem at all when we sold, just couldn't call it a bedroom on the particulars. The purchaser's solicitors were mildly annoyed but simply asked us to pay for an indeminity insurance which cost about £70.
We now have 1930s extended semi with huge loft space which is DIY boarded with strip lights. We had a lot of building work done when we first moved in so we needed to board it and use it to store a lot of long term belongings while the builders were here. Never planned to convert it as the storage space is so useful and the house is quite big enough.
However we do use it a lot for short term stuff to keep the rest of the house fairly clutter free. We moved the small hatch and had a very large one built over the landing with an excellent pull down ladder, but it is tedious and we'd like to put a more permanent stair arrangement in because like you we are up and down at least once a week. I would consider a full conversion to an open plan living/storage room up there but sadly this isn't possible due to fire regs needing an enclosed staircase and fire doors top and bottom. For me this would completely ruin the amazing feeling of space and we simply don't need another bedroom or even an extra living room that badly.
I have got as far as engaging a structural engineer to do some calculations for steels and reinforcing rafters etc so we know what would and would not be possible anyway. I think of this as an investment which would aid potential buyers although we don't plan to move. At the very least we feel we should put in a proper load bearing floor because of the sheer use and load current one is supporting. I haven't spoken to anyone in building control yet.
Does anyone know if there is such at thing as a combination of permanent spacesaving stairs (like a ship ladder) with a hatch opening up into the loft which would still keep the room classed as "storage"? My mother had this arrangement in a house I grew up in. The attic was amazing, huge and uninsulated with a sash window and a brick chimney going right through the middle and we often played up there! The hatch door remained secured open whenever anyone was up there but all she was required to do was hang a rope ladder fire escape the window, such were fire regs at the time. Ironically the window itself was more dangerous!
Any innovative ideas welcome, thanks!
St Albanshouseholder I'll follow your decisions with interest.0 -
By enclosed stairs I assume you mean you have stairs entering into an open-plan ground floor. This isn't the end of the possibility for a loft conversion - depending on your architect's relationship with the building inspector. Fire regs are now a question of fire engineering, rather than strict rules. I am confident I could get building regs based on an uprated fire alarm and an escape window to the front of the house (presuming you have a 2 storey house). The fire alarm would need to have smoke detectors at all floors as well as a heat detector in the kitchen. I'd also have a closer on the loft door and possibly an automatic smoke extractor at the top of the stairs.
btw The thought of children playing in the loft, surrounded by heavy storage boxes supported only by boarding on ceiling joists...I'm an ARB-registered RIBA-chartered architect. However, no advice given over the internet can be truly relied upon since the person giving the advice hasn't actually got enough information to give it with confidence. Go and pay someone!0 -
HI marcg, thanks very much for your interest.
First to put your mind at rest, the attic where we played as kids had a fully supporting floor with proper wooden floorboards. It was almost like a third storey, as it had an original sash window. There was a separate storage room off it so it was empty and I believe completely safe - apart from the window!
My kids do not play in my current attic; it's only used for storage and they are not allowed up there. If nothing else we will put in a proper load bearing floor because we use the space so much for short term storage: spare linen, spare clothes, toys on rotation, teaching resources, ski gear, children's memory boxes, etc.
By enclosed stairwell I meant that as I understand it you can't just put a stairwell up into an large space with just banisters. There would have to be a proper room with a door at the top of the stairs which basically means having to have proper plastered partition walls in the loft. OR, I'd have to fully enclose the stairwell with plastered side walls and put a door at the bottom of the stairs from the first floor landing. Even this latter option I think would not satisfy fire regs?
This is my sticking point. I don't want a "room" or rooms at the top! If I did I'd be doing a full conversion.
I'd be grateful for ideas of any way to get around fire regs to allow us to retain the open plan loft area pretty much as it is but structurally sound so we can simply make better use of it. I would be quite happy to leave the purlins in situ as well as the supporting struts.
If the bottom line is that putting in proper stairs or even a ship's ladder with a hatch means it will be viewed as a conversion then we'll simply keep the loft ladder as it is, put in a load bearing floor and that will be that. However, I would really like a velux window even if we keep the loft ladder. Natural light for finding/sorting things and for the view would be infinitely preferable than the current strip lights, and more eco friendly!
Look forward to hearing from you, and thanks again.0 -
no problem with putting a window in or upgrading the floor both will almost certainly be notifiable small works, but putting a permanent staircase in aswell would almost certainly take you down the habitable room route and then subject to full regs.0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply

Categories
- All Categories
- 350.8K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 453.5K Spending & Discounts
- 243.8K Work, Benefits & Business
- 598.7K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 176.8K Life & Family
- 257.1K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards