MSE News: BT cuts 'free' evening calls by one hour

DS-2

Jill_ wrote: »

I'm not being nasty or anything (just in case anyone thinks I am) its just this material disadvantage is confusing me

Hi Jill, you need to look past the point that BT have taken something off "you" that you never used and replaced it with something else that you'll never use.

The fact is that anything that affects the exchange of monies between the customer and the supplier is material.
The fact is that customers agreed contracts that gave them the right to unlimited evening calls between the hours of 6pm and 6am.

The fact that the customer did not make calls across the breadth of those hours has no bearing on this matter. The fact is that the customer agreed with BT that they had the right to do so.

BT have arbitrarily changed those rights by altering the terms of the agreement. So from 1st April, irrespective of the agreement the customer originally signed, BT are telling us that if we make a call between 6pm and 7pm we will be charged. That is to our material disadvatage under the terms of that original agreement.

The argument that BT have given the customer free calls between 6am and 7 am does not change the material disadvantage BT have introduced to the contract.

BT are free to extend the hours during which free calls can be made, that is entirely up to them. But it is tantamount to a mis-sell to suggest either that the customer does not have the right to reject those changes or that if they do they are liable for a termination fee.

BT do not have the legal right to change the commercial terms of the agreement and then argue that if you don't accept those changes that you'll be liable for a termination fee - it isn't reasonable.

Please see:
The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1999/19992083.htm

ACDeag

musical_norwich wrote: »

Communications providers have to operate in line with the 'General conditions under section 45 of the Communications Act 2003' published by OFCOM. These conditions implement EU law and can be downloaded here:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/publications/eu_directives/2003/cond_final0703.pdf

BT is in flagrant of Condition 9.3:

1. BT has to let consumers leave if a change is to their material detriment: BT is doing the reverse and attempting to deny consumers this right
2. BT has a duty to tell customers they have the legal right to leave: BT is doing the reverse and not telling customers they have this right

BT has no leg to stand on and OFCOM should act. If people want to complain to OFCOM these are the most blatant breaches imaginable.

Here is the relevant condition for any doubting Thomases:

9.3 Where the Communications Provider intends to modify a condition in a
contract with a Consumer which is likely to be of material detriment to
the Consumer, the Communications Provider shall:

(a) provide the Consumer with at least one month’s notice of its
intention detailing the proposed modification; and

(b) inform the Consumer of the ability to terminate the contract
without penalty if the proposed modification is not acceptable to
the Consumer.

Note no silly ten day deadline for cancellation. What is the point in OFCOM stipulating one month's notice if the ability to cancel is restricted by BT's own terms and conditions? Also note 'likely to be of material detriment' which is a pretty low threshold - i.e. the consumer can say 'I will most likely be making more calls in the evening than at dawn'.

This isn't the only illegal thing about what BT is trying but it is the most easy to prove.

Mark is correct - BT's permission to cancel is not required. You have the right to cancel under contract law, consumer protection law and the law that gives BT the right to operate.

Light touch regulation has become soft touch regulation. Can't wait for OFCOM to be abolished.

How on earth can we beat BT on this? They wont obey their own terms or the law without a fight. It shows how useless the regulation of some of these companies are. Ofcom seem to make it very difficult to complain directly to them nowadays which presumably makes the likes of BT bolder as to get to Ofcom you have to reach deadlock etc etc etc.

iblametheparents

Success! After the reply to my earlier email (see a couple of pages back) I sent the following:

"Thank you for your email. Unfortunately I was not providing feedback but
requesting termination of my 12 month contract with immediate effect (in
light of you changing your terms and conditions as of 1st April 2010) and
requesting it be reverted to the standard (not committing to 12 months) BT
contract with immediate effect.

Please :

1. Terminate my Unlimited Weekend plan 12 month contract without charge in
accordance with your T&Cs 45 to 48 as of 31/3/2010 due the fact that as of
1st April 2010 I will be materially disadvantaged by your contract change.
2. Change my contract to the Unlimited Weekend Plan with no 12 month
contract with immediate effect.
3. Confirm that you have registered my request for points 1 and 2 and will
act on it.
4. Confirm how much notice I need to give to leave BT once this has been
carried out."

Here was my reply:

"Thank you for your email dated 04/02/10 regarding the calling plan on your BT account.

I am sorry that you had to contact me again regarding the cancellation of 12 month contract on your account.

I can confirm that you have Unlimited Weekend Plan which is in contract until 31/08/10; and it is not possible to remove the contract as the system will not allow. However, I have updated a note on your account to place the deactivation order without the cancellation charges. The reference number for this updated note is VOL011-************* and I assure you that we will not apply the cancellation charges. I request you to refer this number when you wish to deactivate your BT account. I also confirm that you have to provide 14 days notice period to deactivate the BT account."

It can be done! I was in a 12 month contract on the Weekend plan because I moved house last August and when you move home they put you in another 12 month contract, how cheeky is that?!

ACDeag

iblametheparents wrote: »

Success! After the reply to my earlier email (see a couple of pages back) I sent the following:

"Thank you for your email. Unfortunately I was not providing feedback but
requesting termination of my 12 month contract with immediate effect (in
light of you changing your terms and conditions as of 1st April 2010) and
requesting it be reverted to the standard (not committing to 12 months) BT
contract with immediate effect.

Please :

1. Terminate my Unlimited Weekend plan 12 month contract without charge in
accordance with your T&Cs 45 to 48 as of 31/3/2010 due the fact that as of
1st April 2010 I will be materially disadvantaged by your contract change.
2. Change my contract to the Unlimited Weekend Plan with no 12 month
contract with immediate effect.
3. Confirm that you have registered my request for points 1 and 2 and will
act on it.
4. Confirm how much notice I need to give to leave BT once this has been
carried out."

Here was my reply:

"Thank you for your email dated 04/02/10 regarding the calling plan on your BT account.

I am sorry that you had to contact me again regarding the cancellation of 12 month contract on your account.

I can confirm that you have Unlimited Weekend Plan which is in contract until 31/08/10; and it is not possible to remove the contract as the system will not allow. However, I have updated a note on your account to place the deactivation order without the cancellation charges. The reference number for this updated note is VOL011-************* and I assure you that we will not apply the cancellation charges. I request you to refer this number when you wish to deactivate your BT account. I also confirm that you have to provide 14 days notice period to deactivate the BT account."

It can be done! I was in a 12 month contract on the Weekend plan because I moved house last August and when you move home they put you in another 12 month contract, how cheeky is that?!

Out of interest how are you disadvantaged by the change if you were only on the Weekend plan? Is it the increase in call costs and connection fee?

iblametheparents

ACDeag wrote: »

Out of interest how are you disadvantaged by the change if you were only on the Weekend plan? Is it the increase in call costs and connection fee?

I don't even use BT for my calls, only my line rental. I use Primus Penny Mobile 2 CPS for my calls (except for 0845/0870 calls at weekends so I get them for free and 0800 calls all the time so I get my caller display for free, both using the 1280 prefix).

japonicaf

BBC-2 TV had an item on this today on Working Lunch 12.30-1 pm. BT didn't even deign to send a spokesman along, though invited to do so. Working Lunch pointed out that BT is also increasing the cost of its calls, and that it is anyway expensive compared with other providers. One could save £100 to £200 a year by switching.

I am on a free evening and weekend calls contract both for myself and for an elderly relative whose phone bills I pay, and I tend to make calls as soon as the magic hour of 6pm arrives.

It seems the change in terms is basically a revenue-raising exercise, although BT are trying to account for it in terms of a survey of phone use showing that many use the phone between 8 and 9pm. I was incensed and phoned up customer service saying that the contract is no longer valid as they have arbitrarily shifted the goalposts, so I would like to be released without penalty. The services rep immediately tried to get me to transfer to the free calls all the time [??] package. I rang off when they started going on about their survey of time and phone use.

When I rang again later, the person in the call centre (in India I think) didn't even know about the change in time for free calls to 7-7 and had to consult with a supervisor who then came on. I think BT are in for a lot of complaints about this once people cotton on to what is happening, and will lose quite a few customers. The supervisor tried to tell me that the times on the type of package I have used to be 7-7 anyway but had been changed to 6-6 a year or two back. Given that cheap calls have started at 6pm for as long as I can remember I wonder whether that is actually the case.And he also said "anyway, you'll now be able to make free calls from 6am to 7am". Yeah, I'm sure friends and family will be chuffed to be called at that hour!

Bogof_Babe

This was featured on Working Lunch today (BBC2 12.30 - should be available on iPlayer). Apparently they had invited someone from BT to come on and explain their reasons, but no-one was available. Says it all doesn't it? :mad:

JimmyRutter

After investigation they have said they have now cancelled my contract but I will need to call to get the service cancelled fully. I am now unable to log on to my BT account online so I am unable to check. I will be calling tomorrow to get my service cancelled.

I did get an email saying that I had ordered BT Privacy at Home Caller Display which makes things even more confusing!

Heinz

On BBC2's Working Lunch today, BT (via the BBC reporter, they didn't deign to put up a spokesperson), announced that any customer on their E&W Plan who wanted to get out of it, should dial 0800 800 150, select Option 2 and they will then be let off their contract without having to prove any use or likely use.

BeardedMan

I also saw the working lunch programme today. I have just rung BT on the number provided and the assistant there knew nothing of the possibility of requesting any changes back to the 6pm threshold.

I told him I was not happy about the time change and he filed a complaint. Not sure it will do much good but at least it's on record.