jobseekers / employers alike- this official 'bung' may tip the balance!

gargantuan_2

The problem of getting really poor candidates through for jobs when advertising via JCP is probably down to the targets that are expected of each adviser. It may vary from region, but at each interview advisers are expected to demonstrate that there has been at least three "positive outcomes" (customer applying for job, customer going on training course, etc). It may be the case that advisers are just submitting anyone that may be vaguely interested in the job (and probably some who aren't!) just so they are seen to be hitting their targets.

el_gringo_3

Vader123 wrote: »

Because some "home grown" workers don't like to do hard work, over long hours, in hot/cold settings, smiling all day for NMW?

Vader

I had mine done the other day - all the lads there had thick yorkshire accents and none looked a day over 18. I suspect many of them hire on price and/or flexibility being the main issue. A 16 year old English lad is cheaper than a 25 year old Pole, yet the pole is less likely to kick up a fuss (or have his parents kick up a fuss) if he's regularly given less than any contracted hours, sent home after five minutes because its started lashing it down or told to work through a lunch break.

Whilst I agree with your sentiments on JC candidates, not everything can be blamed on a 'lazy British working class' as many of your posts allude to. Yes, there are these idiots about, but human nature and behavioural economics dictates they will always be in the minority. It must also be remembered that there are 'homegrown' workers working all over the world and that we in Britain are unlikely to see of the most likely simlarly numbered unmotivated Poles or Lithuaians, as they aren't likely to leave their country!

donnajunkie

el_gringo wrote: »

I had mine done the other day - all the lads there had thick yorkshire accents and none looked a day over 18. I suspect many of them hire on price and/or flexibility being the main issue. A 16 year old English lad is cheaper than a 25 year old Pole, yet the pole is less likely to kick up a fuss (or have his parents kick up a fuss) if he's regularly given less than any contracted hours, sent home after five minutes because its started lashing it down or told to work through a lunch break.

Whilst I agree with your sentiments on JC candidates, not everything can be blamed on a 'lazy British working class' as many of your posts allude to. Yes, there are these idiots about, but human nature and behavioural economics dictates they will always be in the minority. It must also be remembered that there are 'homegrown' workers working all over the world and that we in Britain are unlikely to see of the most likely simlarly numbered unmotivated Poles or Lithuaians, as they aren't likely to leave their country!

there is a difference between being lazy and wanting to be treated fairly with fair enough pay and conditions. paying someone a wage as low as the minimum wage is disgraceful, expecting people to work through their breaks is disgraceful etc.

Sunshine12

The JC is a total waste of time so far as Im concerned and whilst I am in the unfortunate position of signing on, if I were back in the managerial position I recently lost I would not even consider going through the job centre to post a vacancy. I was completely shocked at the "system" thats in place. Whilst I do not want any assistance from them to find another position, for those that do, I dont think they are particularly useful. The staff that are there to deal with claims etc are only administrators and are not there to assist people in finding jobs (they are all very nice I must say but they dont help people find suitable posts) I was told the other day that the time for each person signing on has now been reduced to 3 minutes instead of 5 due to understaffing and that the previous weekly interviews that used to take place after 13 weeks signing on had been withdrawn, again due to lack of staffing. They are willing to pay money fortnightly to those signing on without any clue as to whether they are actually looking for work or not. I realise I may have gone slightly off topic but agreed with Vader123's posts despite being on JSA myself and wanted to comment. I would not under any circumstances post a vacancy in the job centre as whilst there may be people there that would be capable I could not be bothered trawling through the hundreds of CV's for those who were unsuitable and only applying so they could declare it on their 'fortnightly signing in sheet.'

Vader123

My comments on this thread were not to pour scorn on the JC+ or the people that work there.

They are a) employed, which sets them apart from the people they deal with, and b) working with a ever and increasing workload.

I can't comment on the job seekers part of this (though I see others have) but as an employer I have no obligation whatsover to use them as a source of candidates.

However, as a job seeker and wanting to claim JSA, you have to use them.

Vader

Sunshine12

Its the system I have the problem with not the people as its totally subject to abuse which I was quite shocked about. You dont have to use the job centre to find employment for you if you want to claim JSA (not sure if thats what you meant). Im claiming it and they havent done anything to either assist me finding suitable employment or suggested that I have to use them either (nor will I be.)

pineapple

I have been on JSA for 3 months and have never had them try to send me anywhere. They did give me a couple of print outs but there was no requirement for me to apply. Frankly I don't need help with interviews etc and I am doing more comprehensive job searches than they could ever do.
The numbers signing on at my local centre have doubled from 2,000 to 4,000 and they can't magic jobs out of thin air.

donnajunkie

pineapple wrote: »

They did give me a couple of print outs but there was no requirement for me to apply.

usually if they give you a print out of a job then they have refered you for it and you are expected to apply for it.

unemployedJCP

I have came across this topic via Google and after reading through it entirely it seems although there are posters in the topic representing both Jobseekers and the Employer it seems neither really have a clue about the system hence why I decided to register and point a few things out. (Excuse the random generic name)

a) vader the employer. I think you are giving the unemployed a too hard time. You seem to have complete disrespect for people being honest to you saying they are only attending to keep their benefit.

It is NOT the jobseeker applying to waste your time and theirs... it is not how the system works... as mentioned here by someone (john i think it was) what happens is each jobseeker has to choose 3 different job categories on their Jobseekers Agreement. Jobs are lightly allocated into such categories (i.e. managers can appear under admin or retail in addition to the management categories - which means some people may decide to apply for such jobs although they don’t have the skills for them).

You are largely stereotyping on passive receivers i.e. those who don’t bother looking for jobs... this is an corruption of DWP as no one is entitled to claim if they don’t ASE. It seems the staff are scared of these type of people and keep their claim ongoing. Some areas have families with generations on the dole. A major problem but you shouldn’t judge everyone the same.

When you sign on or have a New Deal appointment they will do a job search for the client. It is down to the advisers discretion whether or not to submit the jobseeker to jobs. Some ask for the jobseekers opinion. The adviser can go with whether the person is interested or not, or submit the jobseeker to the job against their will. When submitted to a job it is a Jobseekers Direction - failure to comply is a variable sanction (up to 6 months - typically 6 months is given but maybe reduced on appeal).

Whether it is a genuine claimant or not - 6 months without money is a serious issue. Sadly those who aren't interested in jobs fills the system and makes it unfair on those who do - although we could argue this for immigration etc. - There is nothing in place to accurately stop those who claim without seeking employment. They used to check up on people but don’t anymore - so you could probably lie every 2 weeks and get away with it.

b) JCP is just as bad (some of them). You then praise Jobcentre Plus staff for having a job NOT balancing the £51/£65(r) weekly amount to a fulltime wage both which us the taxpayer is paying for. If Jobcentre Plus doesn't want to provide the service of getting people back into work (what all the literature states), WE are paying several times more for such staff who should be on the dole themselves!

Jobcentre staff has targets to meet - basically jobs on the system have a submission limit of 299 per a vacancy. This isn't applicable to job points or website - so applicant numbers can be higher plus any other advertised methods. Sometimes the limit is set lower. Normally they like to choose at least 3 jobs for people to apply for. This means most staff will submit jobseekers to any job without properly reading the job description. I had to sign on at one point for a couple of months and I refused one vacancy because the advert stated I needed professional qualifications (essential not desirable) I didn’t have. I felt it was silly to apply for it as I had no chance of getting an interview. I had a lot of trouble sorting this out as i was assumed to just apply for it anyway.

Jobseekers will be aware that some staff members will submit you to unrealistic job vacancies. The problem is, they don’t always let you view the screen so when they print out the sheet you are submitted for it. I weren’t told about the professional qualification and I found out when I got home (ready to apply for it). I contacted them in all honesty letting them know of the mistake where I was told not to worry about it. When I next signed on, I explained it to the woman as she asked how I got on, also mentioning about the phone call with her colleague. She responded with you should have applied for it but don’t worry about it. Later to find out I was submitted for a 6 month sanction. I eventually appealed successfully but managed to get a job before it would have taken effect anyway.

c) We have a major issue with the current job market. Everyone who wants a job is doing what I describe as Job Stemming - that is to apply for any job you are capable of doing BUT not what you are most skilled for. This is a headache for employers. Too many people with a job don’t realise how important it is. I know unemployment is associated with those too lazy to work but a lot of people in the credit crunch lost their jobs. Not having money is a major problem so getting a job is better than no job at all even if it’s not a career move.


Hope this helps.

rupee99

It is undoubtedly true that a large number of JC applicants, possibly a majority, even the overwhelming majority, fall into the classification of those with whom Vader has experience.

There are also a large number that are genuine.

Prospective employers need to frame their own attitude and deal with such applicants in accordance with their needs and experience. Although the original point of the £500 "bonus" is an incentive it is hardly likely to tip the balance.