Anyone used Rointe heaters?

LittleVermin

scotmac1 wrote: »

.............What other information will you need to give me an idea of running costs of a £10 fan heater as I am keen to find out?

I'm no electrical engineer but I'd say that for the same power (in watts) the cheapo fan heater would have the same running costs as a rather more expensive Rointe heater*. Wouldn't you?

Both are converting electrical energy into thermal energy at 100% efficiency ... Magic isn't involved!


*But Cardew has already made this point! (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=44228064&postcount=55
Apologies!

Cardew

scotmac1 wrote: »

Regarding running costs, I can advise that my lounge is roughly 28m2 with very good insulation, temperature required 20/21 or 22ºc for example and, say 10 hours of use. What other information will you need to give me an idea of running costs of a £10 fan heater as I am keen to find out?

You don't seem to understand what I have been saying.

Any electrical heater has an efficiency of 100% - be it the oldest 1/2/3 bar fire, a fan heater, a panel heater, oil filled radiator or your Rointe heaters.

So they will all give out exactly the same heat/warmth/BTu for the same running cost.

So the heat/warmth/BTu you get from your Rointe heaters for say £1 is the same as you will get from any other electrical heater.

LittleVermin

Rointe's printed material was the subject of three complaints to the Advertising Standards Authority - all 3 complaints were upheld in an adjudication on 19th January which steviegee1982 and fb1969 told us about 4 months ago - here's the link again: http://www.asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adjudications/2011/1/Rointe/TF_ADJ_49624.aspx

BUT since March the ASA has been able to adjudicate on websites and on Rointe's website on this page http://www.rointe.co.uk/radiator-k-series.html I see a bold heading:

K Series LOW CONSUMPTION DIGITAL ELECTRIC RADIATOR

Down below there's this:


In the K Series radiator test, made in an independent laboratory, we used a 1,430W model to simulate the heating of a 12 m2 room with the thermostat set to 21ºC. The average power needed during the test was 560W, which represents a 40% of the nominal power. That is what we define as the equivalent ratio of consumption, as you can see in the table above.


The ASA asks a company being complained about to comment on the draft adjudication (I've been there - with a complaint!) and apparently Rointe didn't produce any reports, etc justifying their printed advert and brochure. Maybe they'll be more forthcoming with justification for their web material?

Is this clever wording? i.e. a thermostatically controlled cheapo fan heater of the same poswer could give exactly the same results ... and be a LOW CONSUMPTION DIGITAL cheapo ELECTRIC RADIATOR?

Maybe one of the electrical engineers on the forum would like to complain to the ASA, please?

Cardew

Apart from being meaningless - typical pseudo scientific advertising blurb designed to impress the layman - it isn't inaccurate.

It apparently means that their 1,430W heater needs to be running for 40% of the time to produce the 560W heating load to maintain the temperature in that room at 21C. i.e 1.430 x 40% = 572W

So for 10 hours heating it would use 5.60kWh.

However that of course means that any other electrical heater(including a £10 heater from Argos) would also produce exactly the same heat/warmth for a consumption of 5.6kWh!!

So IMO nothing in the advert that would interest the ASA.

LittleVermin

Cardew wrote: »

.............

So IMO nothing in the advert that would interest the ASA.

I thought you'd say that! The only thing that might interest them would be the misleading banner headline:

LOW CONSUMPTION DIGITAL ELECTRIC RADIATOR -(my bold) implying Rointe heaters use less energy than other heaters.

************
Interesting exchange on the electriciansforum http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/electrical-tools-products/16982-rointe-2.html

...Rointe heaters are nothing special and cost stupid money.

Yes u may be right , but why are we complaining it's more work for us....

I hope that comes up on Gxxgle! Choose your electrician with care!

And there's a special deal for Rointe Official Installers coming up*. "Receive 100% of the installation costs immediately. Your clients have 60 months to pay"! So that's a contributory reason why a 330w K Series (LOW CONSUMPTION Rointe radiator) costs £251 while top of the range 1600w (LOW CONSUMPTION Rointe radiator) costs a mere £622.00.


*http://www.rointe.co.uk/rointe-club.html

grahamc2003

I just wonder how much longer this blatant Rointe ripoff (due to their misleading sales literature) will continue for? I doubt it will be long before they see the light and move into selling solar panels.

Cardew

LittleVermin wrote: »

I thought you'd say that! The only thing that might interest them would be the misleading banner headline:

LOW CONSUMPTION DIGITAL ELECTRIC RADIATOR -(my bold) implying Rointe heaters use less energy than other heaters.

************
Interesting exchange on the electriciansforum http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/electrical-tools-products/16982-rointe-2.html

...Rointe heaters are nothing special and cost stupid money.

Yes u may be right , but why are we complaining it's more work for us....

I hope that comes up on Gxxgle! Choose your electrician with care!

And there's a special deal for Rointe Official Installers coming up*. "Receive 100% of the installation costs immediately. Your clients have 60 months to pay"! So that's a contributory reason why a 330w K Series (LOW CONSUMPTION Rointe radiator) costs £251 while top of the range 1600w (LOW CONSUMPTION Rointe radiator) costs a mere £622.00.


*http://www.rointe.co.uk/rointe-club.html

I obviously agree with your sentiments, but there is nothing illegal in calling a heater 'low' consumption.

In fact a 330W heater has very low consumption, but of course low heat output.

£622 for a 1.6kW heater is just a stupid price. However people must buy them!!

LittleVermin

Cardew wrote: »

I obviously agree with your sentiments, but there is nothing illegal in calling a heater 'low' consumption.
.........

from http://www.cap.org.uk/The-Codes/CAP-Code/CAP-Code-Item.aspx?q=CAP%20Code%20new_General%20Sections_03%20Misleading%20advertising#c53 :

03 Misleading advertising

The ASA may take the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 into account when it adjudicates on complaints about marketing communications that are alleged to be misleading. See Appendix 1 for more information about those Regulations.

The ASA will take into account the impression created by marketing communications as well as specific claims. It will adjudicate on the basis of the likely effect on consumers, not the marketer’s intentions.

(my bold)

And from the Advertising Code
http://www.asa.org.uk/ASA-Action/Adjudications/Display-Code.aspx?CodeId={08D304FD-1571-4B6A-B084-4E8EDD3CDB01}&ItemId={81AC0EE0-83B5-4683-ACEC-A3FBE7F9CCC0}

General

• 3.1
  Marketing communications must not materially mislead or be likely to do so.

If I read that a heater is "LOW CONSUMPTION" I'd assume (if I didn't know better!) that I'd get more heat out of it than an 'equivalent' heater. That would seem to be the "likely effect on consumers". It certainly seems to be the impression several posters on this forum have. So they have been misled, haven't they?

Cardew

LittleVermin wrote: »

If I read that a heater is "LOW CONSUMPTION" I'd assume (if I didn't know better!) that I'd get more heat out of it than an 'equivalent' heater. That would seem to be the "likely effect on consumers". It certainly seems to be the impression several posters on this forum have. So they have been misled, haven't they?

I absolutely agree that people will assume that they give out more heat than other heaters - that's the whole point of their webside. In that sense people are misled.

However they are careful not to state anything that is untrue - their low wattage heaters do have low consumption; albeit low heat output.

Why not sound out the ASA? - you don't need to be a qualified electrical engineer to make your case. I will be happy to buy you a virtual pint :beer: if they accept your complaint.

Cardew

bob.jones113 wrote: »

Took your advice in that for every 1kw in you get 1kw of heat out so I have put 1.8kw rowenta irons in my lounge and bedroom. Don't seem to heat up the rooms though and the kids keep burning themselves on them!!

Welcome to the forum.

I assume you meant '1kWh in' not 1kW'?

If you bypassed the thermostat, they would heat equally as well as any other 1.8kW heater - for the few minutes it would take until the heater element burnt out.

If you leave the thermostat alone, it would indeed produce as much heat from 1kWh in as any other heating device; albeit with the thermostat cutting in and out it might take a long while to use 1kWh.

Hope the kids are OK - make sure they take physics at school;)