Product Recall? Plum climbing frames

jo-nige_lee

Catherine_Bell wrote: »

Spoke to Argos again today. They seemed incredibly keen to get the thing collected. (They said I could smash it up with a sledge hammer and if they could gets the bits on the lorry they would collect it and give me the £199.00) Would I be right in assuming that once we have returned it we have somehow agreed to the offered settlement? They also told me that their hands were tied and that it was Plum Products calling the shots, and that if I wasn't happy I should get in touch with Plum Products. I am no legal eagle, but Backyard (manufacturer) have a contract with Plum Products (UK supplier), Plum have a contract with Argos/Homebase (retailer) and Argos/Homebase have a contract with me. So why on earth would Plum be remotely interested in what I have to say? I called Plum to let them know about the Argos 'advice' - After about an hour of "this doesn't sound right, I think you should speak to my supervisor," I got to the point that everyone who offered an opinion agreed that this was a wholly unfair solution (both Argos and Plum,) and everyone who wouldn't say that they could agree it was an unfair settlement took the line that they couldn't comment on company policy. I probably spoke to between 15 and 20 people over the course of the afternoon, and not a single one of them were prepared to say that they thought we were getting a fair deal. I have to admit, most people at Plum who offered an opinion thought that the situation was basically unfair and referred me immediately to someone up the chain who might be able to progress this, while most people at Argos told me that this was a final offer, that I should get the product returned ASAP and that if I didn't agree that I should return it anyway and instigate legal proceedings against Plum to get a fair settlement. Argos refused to give me an email address or contact details for their legal department and repeatedly told me that I should take the matter up with Plum.

My view on this now is that Argos know they are wrong, I know Argos are wrong and I am prepared to fight the big fight to make them do the right thing. My hasband thinks that we would have a viable claim for loss of bargain. IE - We bought an item with an expected lifetime of maybe 10 years (our shed which cost £199.00 has a 15 year guarantee against rot.) Argos supplied an item that wasn't of suitable durability. A similar replacement would now cost around £800.00, so if we had bought a suitably durable item in 2006 we would now have an item with a 7 year lifespan without additional cost. Therefore we should be entitled to the full cost of a similar replacement less the £200.00 they have decided is a fair wear and tear deduction. He is mad keen to start firing off solicitors letters on Monday, on the basis that if no-one thinks the offering from Argos is fair, then we will certainly win.
I am a bit more concerned that while no-one thinks it is fair, it might be legally acceptably and we would blow the offering of £199.00 in a few hours of solicitors fees.
Is it realistic to think that 5 or 10 or 20 disgruntled customers can get together and share a single set of legal costs, and if we win, would Argos be forced to apply the findings to all the customers involved, or has my other half been reading too much Grisham again? ;-)

Well done !!! totally agree with you...my children bought this climbing frame with their Christmas money and now they want to take it back....don't think so.....and they are not getting it back till they replace it with another one
the same as, with a monkey bar..slide and 3 swings. What a cheek its not like
its our fault...I bought it from Argos so is it should be up to them to sort the warranty out as advertised. All they tried to offer was £130 .....does warranty mean if its faulty and dangerous to your child (so they say) tough luck you can whistle for your money !!!! As far as I'm concerned if they have contacted me under warranty I must get a replacement or will continue to use it ...if they were bothered about children's safety surely they would replace it or refund us and take it away. Then they would know for sure that no one would get hurt. Cannot believe they want us to take it down ...haha tell you what I will drop it off for them as well ...DON'T THINK SO !!!!!!! LIKE I SAID I AM NOT SENDING IT BACK TILL I GET A REPLACEMENT OR A FULL REFUND!!!!!

Catherine_Bell

neilmcl wrote: »

Class actions are a US phenomenom, there is no such thing in the UK. The Sale of Goods Act has a limitation period of 6 years so in reality the retailer could use this as the maximum period they would be liable for a product and base any partial refund on this.

(Catherines 'hasband' here - whatever that is :rotfl:)

Is there some legal impediment from taking a class action in the UK or is there just no culture for it. I know that a US lawyer won a class action against BA and Virgin for fuel surcharge price fixing. If there is no such thing as a class action in the UK, how could BA and Virgin be bound by the results.

I will be following this up with a solicitor on Monday, so if anyone is interested, follow the link and join Petra's Facebook group.
David versus Goliath is hard work, but we will see how Goliath copes with the power of social networking.....:idea:


Edit
Ouch - Can't post a link to facebook - login and search for "Argos playcentre" - Join up and we will see if we can get enough momentum to get a reasonable and fair offer

Catherine_Bell

btw - don't dismantle it and don't send it back if you are not happy with the offer. It is going to require YOUR time and effort to dismantle, so you should be compensated accordingly.

Catherine_Bell

petrasplain wrote: »

I have contacted trading standards and been told i don't have a leg to stand on, great!!!

When I spoke to trading standards they told me that as Argos/Plum/Aventure/Backyard people have already admitted that the item failed SoGA on durability and free from defect clauses that that hard part was done and we only had to get them to agree a fair settlement. They thought that is was usually more difficult to prove the inherent flaw

Catherine_Bell

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=313881769826



woohoo - 10 posts - I can link now.

Petra - It might be useful if you posted a copy of your letter to watchdog. If we send the same content they should be able to tie them up

neilmcl

Catherine_Bell wrote: »

(Catherines 'hasband' here - whatever that is :rotfl:)

Is there some legal impediment from taking a class action in the UK or is there just no culture for it. I know that a US lawyer won a class action against BA and Virgin for fuel surcharge price fixing. If there is no such thing as a class action in the UK, how could BA and Virgin be bound by the results.

I will be following this up with a solicitor on Monday, so if anyone is interested, follow the link and join Petra's Facebook group.
David versus Goliath is hard work, but we will see how Goliath copes with the power of social networking.....:idea:


Edit
Ouch - Can't post a link to facebook - login and search for "Argos playcentre" - Join up and we will see if we can get enough momentum to get a reasonable and fair offer

There isn't a legal framwork in the UK for US style class action lawsuits. I don't know much about the BA/Virgin case but the case was heard in the US and as Virgin and BA operate within the US they can be sued in a US court.

Catherine_Bell

neilmcl wrote: »

There isn't a legal framwork in the UK for US style class action lawsuits. I don't know much about the BA/Virgin case but the case was heard in the US and as Virgin and BA operate within the US they can be sued in a US court.

Thanks Neil - That makes sense, but it doesn't preclude us being the first

From your posts, you seem to be presenting a retailer view on this. Assuming that you don't work for HRG, would you be happy if it happened to you?

neilmcl

I'm not in retailing and whether I sympathise or not is irrelevent. I'm just trying to present the legal situation as I see it. Who are HRG btw?

Catherine_Bell

neilmcl wrote: »

I'm not in retailing and whether I sympathise or not is irrelevent. I'm just trying to present the legal situation as I see it. Who are HRG btw?

HRG...Home Retail Group...... Argos and Homebase mostly.

Aside from the judges among us, we can all present our version of the legal situation but that doesn't make our views right or wrong. So if you are a judge (or a magistrate, or just Joe Bloggs,) do you think Argos are offering a fair settlement. The straw poll so far involving me, some people on here, some sales people in Argos and some people in Plum has a fairly convincing 100% view that we are getting "done over" (I quote the views of Argos customer services) - Surely the legal system is based on getting a fair deal?

So what do you think is fair?

neilmcl

Catherine_Bell wrote: »

Surely the legal system is based on getting a fair deal?

Fairness for all, retailer and consumer alike. This is why there's a six year limit on the SOGA otherwise everyone would expect retailers to effectively offer a lifetime guarantee on every product.

What's fair here really depends on what you want to do about it and who is culpable. If you feel that manufacturer have broken the terms of their warranty then go after them for a like-for-like replacement. If you want Argos to take responsibilty then don't expect them to take anything more than 6 years into account when calculating a fair refund based on usage.