New Scrapage Scheme......Boilers.

Really2

lostinrates wrote: »

I find this boiler stuff really quite interesting: essentially the same as a car but on a smaller scale financially.

re environment factors...what about costs of disposal/making which was discussed in comparitve car scrappage threads, but that I can see, not yet discussed here?

Really2 wrote: »

Depends if you think that extra ton of CO2 per year and on average at least £200 per year to run it is worth it.

I doubt a new boiler takes a ton of CO2 to make even if it did It would have paid for itself and saved energy within 2 years if you use the scrappage (based on a £800 boiler)

I would say one produced in the UK would not cost too much energy to make, a lot less than the energy it can save in 2-3 years I would say.

lostinrates

Thanks really.

Another difference I suppose is that the car scrappage scheme was geared towards replacement of any car with any car: not necessarily environmental: but I presume all boilers are more efficient now.....not having fashion etc to consider?

Really2

lostinrates wrote: »

Thanks really.

Another difference I suppose is that the car scrappage scheme was geared towards replacement of any car with any car: not necessarily environmental: but I presume all boilers are more efficient now.....not having fashion etc to consider?

http://www.cat.org.uk/information/catinfo.tmpl?command=search&db=catinfo.db&eqSKUdatarq=InfoSheet_CondensingBoilers
The above is a good article.

The car one was not green it was just to help the car industry out.

I honestly think this scrappage does make "green" sense. Also it could save people up to 30% on their gas bill. If that is £200+ that could be £400+ per year in 5-10 years.

harryhound

Really2 wrote: »

Do you really think the boiler you mentioned should not be serviced every year?
(the idea of a service is to check it is no likely to kill you more than anything else and as you cant see or smell carbon monoxide it is quiet wise to service any boiler every year by a corgy registered professional)

You could get a service for about £50-£100 if you called round but is it not the total cost of ownership which is the most relevent.

Outlay + running cost/Estimated life of product.

If a modern boiler save £200 per year now even without fuel inflation that is £2000 over 10 years.
Cost to replace after that time will most probably be £1000 is so I find it hard to see where the MSE part of an old boiler comes in?
They all need servicing every year so unless older boilers are cheaper to service the only difference in costs to run is the gas.

If the savings in gas is more than the cost of replacing the product after 10 years (the article near the start says a modern boiler should do at least 10 years) it is a no brainner on which is the most cost effective.

On the carbon monoxide front, my mother also had a gas cooker, that too had nice blue flames, the only difference was that the boiler had a chimney over the top of it sucking any fumes out of the top of the house.
So we are agreed, the new 10 year life boiler will save 200 a year, cost 100 a year to be "serviced" and need replacing at a cost of 1000 after 10 years.
So that is at least 10 days of hassle and "I need to get a part" etc.

Perhaps some of us should be thinking "heat pump" ?

On the multi fuel front. Wood does not release fossil carbon dioxide into the atmosphere but change the fire bars round and burn coal and you are releasing the maximum possible CO2. You won't be able to get the efficiency of a multifuel stove up to 95%, even 80% is risking problems with flue gas corrosion, as coal contains sulphur that burns and hydrolyses to sulphuric acid.

http://www.governmentboiler-scrappagescheme.info/

lostinrates

Really2 wrote: »

The car one was not green it was just to help the car industry out.

I honestly think this scrappage does make "green" sense. Also it could save people up to 30% on their gas bill. If that is £200+ that could be £400+ per year in 5-10 years.

From what you say I think you could be right on this scheme.
I think the car scheme was a missed trick on more than one front.

kabayiri

Really2 wrote: »

Out of interest how much did it cost for the boiler and the install?

2,250.

But there was some resiting work.

I deliberately chose Worcester Bosch, the subject of some slating earlier on in this thread :rolleyes: lol

Really2

harryhound wrote: »

So we are agreed, the new 10 year life boiler will save 200 a year, cost 100 a year to be "serviced" and need replacing at a cost of 1000 after 10 years.
So that is at least 10 days of hassle and "I need to get a part" etc.

£200 without gas price increases.

You still need to service your old boiler at the same cost do you not? and still risk never getting a replacement part.

You can do the same with a new boiler if you like, keep looking fo a blue flame and don't service.:eek:

ps a flue does not guarantee fumes are getting out. But the main point of servicing is noticing when they are being produced.

harryhound

I think the point I was trying to make is that this government offer is very marginal if you already have a trouble free heating system, that does not need servicing.
I'm sure it is possible to buy a CO meter at a fraction of the cost of regular "servicing".

The other point I'm making is that gas is likely to be an increasingly expensive troublesome fuel now that we are not self sufficient in the UK.

Fine if you have an existing system that is still in good condition BUT if we are talking new build it may no longer be the obvious choice.

In mum's case, having been quoted various prices from 2,000 to 4,500 (nice try British Gas), I eventually found a skilled ageing service engineer who "serviced" the system, by removing a dustpan of soot from the bottom of the boiler, fiddled about with the controls (including replacing a part) to reduce the "woosh" and achieve the modern standard for chimney suck as measured over the first minute or so using an manometer and took the rusty manifold & burner away and brazed a repair to it for 500 - 600 GBP.

Two years later following mum's death the house was demolished.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=149031

Meanwhile the government created muddle over the qualifications of gas fitters continues:
http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/news/gas_safe_news/illegal_gas_workers_research.aspx

Really2

harryhound wrote: »

I think the point I was trying to make is that this government offer is very marginal if you already have a trouble free heating system, that does not need servicing.
I'm sure it is possible to buy a CO meter at a fraction of the cost of regular "servicing".

I suppose you could do the same with a car but i think it is proven that servicing anything yearly prolongs the operating life. But you do not seem to grasp that the service is a gas safety inspection more than anything else. (if they go to service it and it is dangerous they will tap it off)

I will point you back to this.
http://www.plumbingpark.co.uk/plumbi...icle13540.html

Analysing the boiler related incidents, the report identifies those boilers 16 years old or more have 1.6 times the risk of being involved in a CO incident than newer boilers. "This increase in risk might be down to the fact that older boilers are more likely to be open flued appliances rather than the age of the appliance alone,” commented Dumbrell. “We understand the additional safety risk that open flued appliances pose and are campaigning for a scrappage scheme to replace these models with newer safer models,” he concluded.

Not having a service may save you a bit of money each year but not attending work through death can serious harm your take home pay if you ask me.;)

Lotus-eater

I actually dispute the figure of £200 savings a year, just because you have your boiler serviced once a year.
But then I thought the average cost of gas must be around what I pay, usually less than £400 a year, that's on up to date prices and using oil not gas. And I have an old leaky house. But I do have a woodburner as well, which must make my annual cost about the same as if I had gas (oil being more expensive)

The figures I found for av gas useage were around the £800 to £900 size.

Seems a great deal to me. Get an extra jumper Mrs.

I keep a CM alarm next to my oil boiler and my woodburner, haven't serviced my boiler in 4 or 5 years and haven't noticed the slightest drop in efficiency.
I am planning to get it serviced soon though and I bet any money you like, the engineer will say it's not too bad, when I ask him how it looks. Slight bit of adjustment and that's all.

The boiler scrappage scheme seems alot more green than the car scrappage lark, maybe they can sort out insulation on houses as well. In fact I caught the tail end of a discussion with Cameron this morning about something about that.