New Scrapage Scheme......Boilers.

Spartacus_Mills

Really2 wrote: »

Considering plastic is not bio-degradable how is plastic going to fail quicker than metal?

Perhaps you could give us some examples of plastic parts that are likely to fail as you obviously are a man in the know.

As far as I now plastic as been used around the presents of electrics for a long time due to it being non conductive.

The plastics inside boilers are glass reinforced nylons and Noryls. Engineering Grade Polymers and significantly more expensive than bog standard grades like you get in a car. You are also spot on about the use of plastics in proximity to electrics. Nylon is picked for its wear resistance. The glass reinforcement adds to the strength and rigidity of the part. For instance the Heat Exchanger has a plastic housing but the innards are vermiculite and stainless steel (not cheap).

Spartacus_Mills

matbe wrote: »

You obviously know nothing about boilers do you.

I never mentioned the combustion chamber and do not have much knowledge of that myself,However for 20 years i have been wiring central heating systems and can tell you that new boilers are full of plastic parts that will fail quicker than metal ones used on previous models.

How many boilers have you seen ?

Really2 has demonstrated alot of knowledge about boilers and their production.

You, OTOH, have demonstrated ignorance.

Can you name the so-called plastic parts that the boilers are now full of and advise when they changed from being all metal ?

Oh, and I have seen hundreds of boilers and have even spent time on the shop floor assembling them as part of an induction.

Wenthen

Q - What sort of poisonous fumes? ....

beaujolais-nouveau wrote: »

The sort that kill you. :-)

I could still be giggling about this tomorrow :rotfl::rotfl:

harryhound

Scrapping reliable old boilers is "a quick win" for our dying government.
The energy systems of this country have been mis managed by all post war governments. Compare the UK with Denmark:

In short, the Danish example demonstrates that it is possible to achieve high economic growth, maintain almost static energy consumption and reduce carbon emissions. Denmark is among the ten most prosperous nations globally and has lower unemployment and a higher per capita GDP than the EU-15 average.

We are signed up to Kyoto and have undertaken to cut emissions by 20% by 2020. (and 80 percent by 2050 - I wonder how many of the men who signed up to that one will be alive to be held to account then:rolleyes:)

We have not got a snowballs chance in hell of achieving that if our bombed out economy does recover, though the recession and the export of our productive manufacturing industry to Asia might mean we achieve the 8% by 2012 target..

Scrapping old cars and old boilers, at the tax payers expense, does reduce emissions (and create jobs - just as building pyramids did) however for the individual it does not make economic sense to be running a massive national mortgage into the future to be bribed with our own taxes and borrowings.

harryhound

My widowed mother installed an 80,000 btu Potterton gas boiler with her new central heating system in the mid 1970's.

Technically it was two cast iron boxes bolted together; the boxes had nodules of cast iron internally to help with the Time, Temperature & Turbulence required for enhanced heat transfer. Under each box there was a stainless steel strip of burner pipe, similar to the one at the back of a gas oven.

That 65% efficient (?) boiler, heating a hot water tank 365 days per year, ran constantly for 30 years, attention free. It was never serviced let alone repaired. It used to start up with a bit of a "woosh" that served to blow any soot out of the combustion chamber.
Each year I would squint through the glass inspection porthole to check that there was still an nice blue flame.
After 30 years it did require attention because it was fitted with a drain c0ck immediately above the burner manifold. At some stage this had started to drip and had rusted a hole in the manifold.

Tell me how much does it cost per year to have a modern boiler serviced?

Bangerchick

harryhound wrote: »

Tell me how much does it cost per year to have a modern boiler serviced?

Well it costs nothing if you do the same as you did. But if you care about the potential for CO emissions you'd be best getting both old and new boilers maintained each year.

Really2

harryhound wrote: »

Tell me how much does it cost per year to have a modern boiler serviced?

But multi fuel is more efficient and is modern and can virtually service free.
do you really think the boiler you mentioned should not be serviced every year?
(the idea of a service is to check it is no likely to kill you more than anything else and as you cant see or smell carbon monoxide it is quiet wise to service any boiler every year by a corgy registered professional)

You could get a service for about £50-£100 if you called round but is it not the total cost of ownership which is the most relevent.

Outlay + running cost/Estimated life of product.

If a modern boiler save £200 per year now even without fuel inflation that is £2000 over 10 years.
Cost to replace after that time will most probably be £1000 is so I find it hard to see where the MSE part of an old boiler comes in?
They all need servicing every year so unless older boilers are cheaper to service the only difference in costs to run is the gas.

If the savings in gas is more than the cost of replacing the product after 10 years (the article near the start says a modern boiler should do at least 10 years) it is a no brainner on which is the most cost effective.

kabayiri

The guys here at home are just finishing the installation of an A-rated boiler.

I read all the 'worries' about modern boilers; weighed up the pros and cons; and went ahead.

Stands to reason, alas, I will miss out on the scrappage discount. But I had an engineer lined up on a schedule. I have no idea whether I would have qualified when it does kick in.

Out of 10, I would give the scheme 9.5 for initiative, and 2.5 for implementation. It felt half-ready when it was announced.

How many people will be delaying their boiler replacements after Christmas?, and how does this help the continuity of work for the heating installers?

[rant-mode OFF]

Really2

kabayiri wrote: »

The guys here at home are just finishing the installation of an A-rated boiler.

Out of interest how much did it cost for the boiler and the install?

lostinrates

I find this boiler stuff really quite interesting: essentially the same as a car but on a smaller scale financially.

re environment factors...what about costs of disposal/making which was discussed in comparitve car scrappage threads, but that I can see, not yet discussed here?