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DWP Flexible new deal scheme

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  • donnajunkie
    donnajunkie Posts: 32,412 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Yes, you would. I have been on these courses....and taught on them too! I have an honours degree in Maths, a degree-equivalent in English, and various Post-Grad qualifications...I still had to sit the tests - 3 times! (I was at 3 different providers over the years). On each occasion my Literacy/Numeracy levels were officially recorded as Level 1 (the assessment only goes up to Level 1!)

    In my experience the 'course' involved no training.A typical 12 week course consisted of: 2 days of assessments/rewriting my CV (totally unnecessarily), then 10 weeks of sitting around doing absolutely nothing. (4 computers for 60 clients to share...and the staff used the computers too) and the job papers once a week. No personal newspapers were allowed, no doing crosswords, nothing. Just sit around and 'job-search' (Not possible, no jobs in local papers, only got about 30 mins on the computer each week). Followed by 2 1/2 weeks of 'work-experience' at a charity shop.

    I can only hope that there has been a radical re-think on these courses....but I somehow doubt it.

    in some ways that sounds similar to my experience. however they werent so bad as to stop people reading their own newspapers or from doing crosswords. they actually gave us crosswords to do. they would push us to go on a workplacement as soon as possible to get us out of their hair. most people would be on a placement within 3 days of starting the course and spend 4 days a week on it for the rest of the course.
  • book12
    book12 Posts: 2,557 Forumite
    edited 5 December 2009 at 5:57PM
    Got my 13 week reveiw on Wednesday... :(
    if they are still doing the tests then you will have to do them no matter what. they dont take long and they are very easy. i believe there was talk of them stopping doing the basic maths and literacy qualifications that i have talked about. so if that is true you may not have to do the tests but that will only be because they dont do them and not because of your qualifications.
    its odd that you are starting feb/march time if they are starting fnd in april. i say that because in my area they started fnd at the beginning of october. so the last people to start on the old new deal started at the end of june and only on the 13 week course. that was so they would finish by the end of september. so i suspect if you dont start the old style course in time for it to finish before fnd starts in april then you wont get refered until april and you would therefore be on fnd.
    i hope they can find a placement you want. however expect them to try and get you to do things like retail and warehousing.

    Why would they stop doing them?

    I read on the DWP website that the phase 2 areas (i.e. the rest of the UK) will be on the Flexible New Deal (FND) from April 2010 (stage 1-3), and stage 4 (i.e. refer people to providers) starting in October 2010. Phase 1 areas of the UK of FND started in April 2009 (stage 1-3), and stage 4 started in October 2009. Source: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/fnd_phase_2_pqq_spec.pdf (p.5 1.18, 1.19).

    Phase 1 & 2 areas are listed here: http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/tabtools/FND_tabtool_information.pdf

    I live in a phase 2 area.

    It sounds better than the old New Deal though, as FND is tailored to people's individual needs.

    What would the JC do to me if I don't go on FND until April time?

    DWP Flexible New Deal Information - http://www.dwp.gov.uk/supplying-dwp/what-we-buy/welfare-to-work-services/flexible-new-deal/
    in some ways that sounds similar to my experience. however they werent so bad as to stop people reading their own newspapers or from doing crosswords. they actually gave us crosswords to do. they would push us to go on a workplacement as soon as possible to get us out of their hair. most people would be on a placement within 3 days of starting the course and spend 4 days a week on it for the rest of the course.

    Looks like people are keen to go on work placements, instead of sitting in a room doing 'job search'. :o I think I would do that too. :p

    Will there be a situation where there aren't enough placements for people to go on?

    Also, I thought people need to go through the first step (i.e. 'gateway' - find out what you can do, what sort of work you want, and how you can get it. CVs, application forms, advice, etc...). If after the first step, the person found a job, then he/she will be in paid employment, and sign-off JSA/don't attend centre anymore. If people aren't sucessful in securing paid employment after the first step, people go to step two (i.e. work placements). :confused:

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Jobseekers/programmesandservices/DG_180469 , http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Jobseekers/programmesandservices/DG_180442
  • i agree, its a big risk though. what if you lose one of them?

    Well you still have one! It's got to be better than not having a job at all! Even one p/t job pays more than Jobseekers' Allowance.
    (AKA HRH_MUngo)
    Member #10 of £2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
  • exprog
    exprog Posts: 413 Forumite
    doing something to get some recent experience was better than not getting it.
    True at most only if employers treated it as both worthwhile and experience. Mostly they do not and the ones that occasionally employ any of these people would have employed someone anyway without wasting vast amounts of taxpayers' money enriching these scamming training companies. The proper solution to mass unemployment is for the government to meet its responsibility to run the economy to generate full employment. Like governments used to do.
    I doon't see it as punishment (neither did my son when he was doing it).

    When an employer does wish to employ someone they can either employ someone via the New Deal scam, first benefiting from unpaid staff and then receiving a government handout, or they can just employ someone. Guess which is likely to be the preferred option. The existence of these scams makes is less likely for people not on them to get a job. Were the shams not to exist your son may have got a job anyway. And his girlfriend should have done her schoolwork at school or else gone to evening class to remedy the deficiency. The whole thing is a punishment of the victims of thirty years of misrule by politicians and civil servants and used as a device to divert attention away from that failure.

    I believe in people having 'real' jobs
    Then you should stop supporting ludicrous schemes that destroy real jobs.
    Not many companies can afford to pay people for doing a job that is not really needed
    But many of them are entirely happy to not pay people for doing jobs that are really needed. Other countries are well able to provide paid jobs that do need doing in the public sector rather than creating a slave labour force. We should do the same.


    especially with things like (imho) the ridiculously generous terms for things like maternity/paternity/parental leave floating around these days

    I could not agree more, but the existence of these things is yet another incentive to not have paid employees when companies are clearly better off with unpaid labour.

    As for the 'zero' hours contracts - yes, those are a nasty sign of the times.

    They are a nasty sign of the way in which governments of this country have come to despise their own citizens. These are the same governments that demand we be ever more European but only for things that benefit their rich party donors.

    However, surely it is better than being unemployed?

    In much the same way that it is better to be murdered quickly than it is to be murdered slowly. Personally, I'd rather have a system that provides proper jobs and not support one that destroys them.
    book12 wrote: »
    I have qualifications GCSEs in Maths and English, both at grade B and C respectively. I also got qualifications higher than A-levels. Would I still do those tests on my first day of New Deal?
    Not only will you have to do the tests the chances are you will be treated like an idiot by staff who are mostly ignorant, of low IQ and little education albeit that a small number of them may be well-intentioned.
    book12 wrote: »
    It sounds better than the old New Deal though, as FND is tailored to people's individual needs.

    I think you mean the government, noted for always telling the truth, and the scamming companies are pretending it is tailored to people's needs. Good luck with that.
  • donnajunkie
    donnajunkie Posts: 32,412 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    book12 wrote: »
    Got my 13 week reveiw on Wednesday... :(



    Why would they stop doing them?

    I read on the DWP website that the phase 2 areas (i.e. the rest of the UK) will be on the Flexible New Deal (FND) from April 2010 (stage 1-3), and stage 4 (i.e. refer people to providers) starting in October 2010. Phase 1 areas of the UK of FND started in April 2009 (stage 1-3), and stage 4 started in October 2009. Source: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/fnd_phase_2_pqq_spec.pdf (p.5 1.18, 1.19).

    Phase 1 & 2 areas are listed here: http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/tabtools/FND_tabtool_information.pdf

    I live in a phase 2 area.

    It sounds better than the old New Deal though, as FND is tailored to people's individual needs.

    What would the JC do to me if I don't go on FND until April time?

    DWP Flexible New Deal Information - http://www.dwp.gov.uk/supplying-dwp/what-we-buy/welfare-to-work-services/flexible-new-deal/



    [URL="http://"][/URL]

    i was just thinking about the courses were you attend full time. if your full time fnd courses dont start until later next year then you most likely will start on the old style course when you are due to. they can sometimes be slow to do this and often refer people upto a few months after they were due to be refered.

    if you dont go on the course until next april because they havent refered you then they wont do anything to you.
    if you dont go on the course because you refuse to then they will sanction your benefit.
  • donnajunkie
    donnajunkie Posts: 32,412 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    book12 wrote: »



    Looks like people are keen to go on work placements, instead of sitting in a room doing 'job search'. :o I think I would do that too. :p

    Will there be a situation where there aren't enough placements for people to go on?

    Also, I thought people need to go through the first step (i.e. 'gateway' - find out what you can do, what sort of work you want, and how you can get it. CVs, application forms, advice, etc...). If after the first step, the person found a job, then he/she will be in paid employment, and sign-off JSA/don't attend centre anymore. If people aren't sucessful in securing paid employment after the first step, people go to step two (i.e. work placements). :confused:

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Jobseekers/programmesandservices/DG_180469 , http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Jobseekers/programmesandservices/DG_180442

    i've never known there to be a shortage of placements. there may not be placements on offer in the work you want to do but there will always be placements.

    this is how it works in my area. after 3 months i had to go to an appointment along with a load of other people and sit in a room were we got lectured about jobsearch for 45 minutes. after 6 months i got assigned to an advisor that i have to see once a month for 6 months to talk about what can be done. after that i will get refered to an outside provider to start on the full time fnd course which lasts upto 12 months as they say. all i know about it is it will involve some time in a centre and sometime on work placement.
  • donnajunkie
    donnajunkie Posts: 32,412 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Well you still have one! It's got to be better than not having a job at all! Even one p/t job pays more than Jobseekers' Allowance.
    i suspect you dont have much left after paying the increase in rent and council tax.
  • book12
    book12 Posts: 2,557 Forumite
    i've never known there to be a shortage of placements. there may not be placements on offer in the work you want to do but there will always be placements.

    this is how it works in my area. after 3 months i had to go to an appointment along with a load of other people and sit in a room were we got lectured about jobsearch for 45 minutes. after 6 months i got assigned to an advisor that i have to see once a month for 6 months to talk about what can be done. after that i will get refered to an outside provider to start on the full time fnd course which lasts upto 12 months as they say. all i know about it is it will involve some time in a centre and sometime on work placement.

    I don't mind what placement I do, as long as it is the job areas mentioned on my Jobseekers Agreement. Does the suppliers have a copy of this?

    After I'm referred to the centre, do I fill in a form at the centre to go on the placement? How is this arranged?

    I have to go for a group thing on Wednesday for my 13 week review (3 months), and it's a group session. I assume there isn't a need to participate. Do I still get a 1-to-1 session with an advisor after the session, where they could sign me on, check/initial job log, authorise payment on computer, review Jobseekers Agreement, and see the 'proof' of finding work?

    How many people attend the group session?

    I'm quite looking forward to the help they will give during the group session.

    Do I need to sign a sheet when I arrive at the group session, to prove that I've attended the session?

    I got a letter about the 13 week review during my last sign-on. It says they will be reviewing the Jobseekers Agreement, and see 'proof' of finding work.
  • donnajunkie
    donnajunkie Posts: 32,412 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    book12 wrote: »
    I don't mind what placement I do, as long as it is the job areas mentioned on my Jobseekers Agreement. Does the suppliers have a copy of this?

    After I'm referred to the centre, do I fill in a form at the centre to go on the placement? How is this arranged?

    I have to go for a group thing on Wednesday for my 13 week review (3 months), and it's a group session. I assume there isn't a need to participate. Do I still get a 1-to-1 session with an advisor after the session, where they could sign me on, check/initial job log, authorise payment on computer, review Jobseekers Agreement, and see the 'proof' of finding work?

    How many people attend the group session?

    I'm quite looking forward to the help they will give during the group session.

    Do I need to sign a sheet when I arrive at the group session, to prove that I've attended the session?

    I got a letter about the 13 week review during my last sign-on. It says they will be reviewing the Jobseekers Agreement, and see 'proof' of finding work.


    they dont have to stick to the jobs on your jobseekers agreement. they most likely will do one of the following.

    1. if you are lucky they will say yes we have placements available in what you want to do.
    2. we dont have anything like that at the moment so why not try something else until we do.
    3. you have no chance getting anything like that and as you have been out of work for quite a while you should try something else.

    anyway in the 6 months previous to doing the course when you are seeing an advisor once a month they are likely to try and get you to open up your jobseekers agreement to other types of jobs. thats a way of getting you to do the jobs no-one wants. mine has already wiped the section regarding restricting hours of working without even asking me if it was ok.
    the training company you are at will have someone who finds work placements. they will already have contacts at many companies. they have a short chat with you to find out what you want to do and will then utter one of the 3 points i mentioned above. some placements will want to see you first for a sort of informal interview and others will take you without seeing you first. you will then be told what your hours will be and when you will start, usually the next day sometimes even the same day. if you need things like boots or overalls you will get them provided.
    in my experience those 13 weeks reviews are nothing to worry about so long as you dont say anything stupid.
  • book12
    book12 Posts: 2,557 Forumite
    they dont have to stick to the jobs on your jobseekers agreement. they most likely will do one of the following.

    1. if you are lucky they will say yes we have placements available in what you want to do.
    2. we dont have anything like that at the moment so why not try something else until we do.
    3. you have no chance getting anything like that and as you have been out of work for quite a while you should try something else.

    anyway in the 6 months previous to doing the course when you are seeing an advisor once a month they are likely to try and get you to open up your jobseekers agreement to other types of jobs. thats a way of getting you to do the jobs no-one wants. mine has already wiped the section regarding restricting hours of working without even asking me if it was ok.
    the training company you are at will have someone who finds work placements. they will already have contacts at many companies. they have a short chat with you to find out what you want to do and will then utter one of the 3 points i mentioned above. some placements will want to see you first for a sort of informal interview and others will take you without seeing you first. you will then be told what your hours will be and when you will start, usually the next day sometimes even the same day. if you need things like boots or overalls you will get them provided.
    in my experience those 13 weeks reviews are nothing to worry about so long as you dont say anything stupid.

    I have a maximum of 3 types of jobs already in my Jobseekers Agreement:
    • IT administration/support
    • data entry
    • customer services (bank)

    I am willing to do full/part-time permanent or temporary work.

    Hopefully, New Deal could provide me placements in those areas. If not, something 'similar' to those 'areas' would do fine. For example:
    • if they have IT jobs, as long as it doesn't involve development/programming
    • if they don't have data entry jobs, any admin job will do, as long as there isn't any phone work involved
    I am willing to try other job areas not listed in my Jobseekers Agreement, as long as it's not factory work, cleaning, and things like that. I have no experience, and not willing to do those stuff, as I'm not good at it. As long as the job is in an office I don't mind. :o

    It's good that most placements don't need an interview.

    By the way, how's your time at Flexible New Deal going so far? Where did you go in your placement?
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